I debated whether or not to start this because we already have this.
But I am. I'm curious. Curious as to what was going through Tony's head and my head were normal.
Is it? Do all guys experience this sort of panic about asking girls out? Are we different? Is there a social difference in 2006 that makes it different than when you adults (sorry if I try to make you sound old, you are all grown ups to me) dated? Have men become more "pussified?"
I was really taken aback by Amy's comments that she'd only been asked out three times. And I believe Jenn said something to that effect too. Are men really that intimidated by good looking women? Why do we think that they are out of our league? Do we have a tendency to undervalue our own assets, and overvalue the opposite sex's? (at least at the beginning) What can girls do to help alleviate that pressure? I know in my case, this probably wasn't the most gorgeous girl I had ever seen at first sight, but there was something that said "you have to do this." What is that? Do we know? (I realized today that she had a resemblance to Danica Patrick. Seriously. That could be it.)
I know that this is a lot of questions, and I'm sure there are more. A lot of people have expressed their thoughts in that other thread, but I think this has a potential to take off and provide some serious discussion.
So, am I off base?
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Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
I used to think it was just me. I'm pretty shy. With everyone. Remember how long it took me to start talking at the Summit?
The best luck I've ever had with women was at weddings or at friend's family functions. They're strangers, but it's easier for me to approach them to sorta find out who they know and how they know them.
Even with a wingman, I suck.
I was acting all cocky in that other thread, but that was all talk. I'd be in the same boat as you were. Maybe worse.
I was a little surprised that you had a problem with it, since you're so outgoing.
Keep in mind that in much of the world marriage arrangements are not the sole business of the boy and girl. And even here many people seriously looking are willing to ask friends for advice.
If you would have told me I was outgoing 4 years ago, I would have laughed in your face. Now, different story.
I'm that way until it comes down to the whole "question" thing. And I am absolutely terrible at gauging girls' interest. The whole flirting thing is so above my head. I would just appreciate a blinking sign above her head or something. But I can pick it up when girls are doing it to buddies, or across the bar or restaurant or something. But when it comes to me, I'm freaking clueless.
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Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
I don't actively flirt. I just play around and have fun. Sometimes it makes the girls laugh, sometimes it makes them cry. I never plan it that way, it just works out that way.
I agree with LD, Nick. I'm surprised you get so shy with girls!
Honestly, I think it's an issue for everyone, but the magnitude of it is obviously different from person to person.
I'm the type of person that has never met a stranger, but I still would always get nervous when seeing or speaking to someone I was interested in. I can remember having a crush on a guy at my gym and being so nervous every time I went to work out.
As for the whole getting asked out thing: I don't have an answer for you there. I can't tell you how many times I would want a guy to come up and speak to me and they didn't. I'd make eye contact, smile, all in an attempt to make it more comfortable for him, but it never works. For some reason it worked in the romantic-comedy movies, but not for me. :p
At first I always followed the "the guy makes the first move" rule. Why? I don't know. Cinderella was read to Amy a few too many times as a child, I guess. But I got to a point where I just had to make the first move to at least speak to the guy and then if he wanted to make the move to ask me out, he could.
I'd make eye contact, smile, all in an attempt to make it more comfortable for him, but it never works. For some reason it worked in the romantic-comedy movies, but not for me. :p
I fear looking like a lecherous yahoo if I get caught looking.
I used to be horrible at talking with girls.. I mean, it was pathetic.
Then I had to live in residence with about six girls to every guy. I think my perception changed a bit (how couldnt it). Now I dont really think about it, when I met my current girlfriend, it was talking about how I thought this lowered VW was really cool, but she hated it, nothing better then meeting someone in an argument!
Ive only 'asked out' 4 girls, ever. Each time it gets a bit easier I think. The first time I think I almost passed out, then after that it got easier. I think you just got to giver, odds are shes going to say yes even if she is really not interested. Most girls will at least go out for dinner and give you a chance! hah. If you are interested, providing your not a complete jackass, she probally is a bit too?
Its funny though, some of the most beatiful women that I know have the hardest time finding guys.
I agree with LD, Nick. I'm surprised you get so shy with girls!
I lock up. There's been at least two or three other girls that I was genuinely interested in, and I could never get the courage to say anything. Maybe that will change.
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Honestly, I think it's an issue for everyone, but the magnitude of it is obviously different from person to person.
I'm the type of person that has never met a stranger, but I still would always get nervous when seeing or speaking to someone I was interested in. I can remember having a crush on a guy at my gym and being so nervous every time I went to work out.
That's how I felt for a while at class and stuff. But then I'd just go sit in the same row, but all the way at the other end, and the class was empty, so there was never anyone between, but I was like "no, can't get too close, she can't know you are even slightly interested in her" like it was the scarlet letter or something.
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As for the whole getting asked out thing: I don't have an answer for you there. I can't tell you how many times I would want a guy to come up and speak to me and they didn't. I'd make eye contact, smile, all in an attempt to make it more comfortable for him, but it never works. For some reason it worked in the romantic-comedy movies, but not for me. :p
At first I always followed the "the guy makes the first move" rule. Why? I don't know. Cinderella was read to Amy a few too many times as a child, I guess. But I got to a point where I just had to make the first move to at least speak to the guy and then if he wanted to make the move to ask me out, he could.
Yeah, if it was like the movies, my handsome good looks and cunning charm would have the ladies on their knees. Too bad it isn't.
I have a hard time distinguishing the "are you talking to me because you're maybe kinda ok interested" or "are you talking to me just to talk to me?" And maybe I overanalyze that too. But that's only for some girls. The pool I worked at for the last 8 years was a perfect example. Sure, I had crushes, there was one a summer for the first oh, five or six years. But you get us all together--about 70-30 girls to guys-- and we act like long lost friends and there is absolutely no sexual tension whatsoever. I guess it's something about growing up together.
I have a friend who's probably a dream girl. She's very good looking, isn't afraid to speak her mind, and loves sports. Yet I had absolutely no interest in dating her. We're probably too alike. It was like Nick in female form. Scary I know.
And the whole eye contact thing. Again, for the life of me I have no idea what the hell that actually means, I'm so oblivious. Both of my roommates are freaking ENGAGED, and I'm the one that is the crazy, outgoing one. But at the same time, I'm 21, engagement is not something I want to think about for a little bit.
__________________
Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
I think you just got to giver, odds are shes going to say yes even if she is really not interested. Most girls will at least go out for dinner and give you a chance! hah. If you are interested, providing your not a complete jackass, she probally is a bit too?
This reminds me of a time when a guy I already knew through friends came up to me and said, "so, when are you going to give me your number?" And no, not as a playful joke cause I would have appreciated that...He was a complete cocky jackass when he said it.
But yeah, as long as you don't go the route of that guy, you'll most likely get a date. And plike I said in the other thread, it really makes a girl's day no matter what.
Its funny though, some of the most beatiful women that I know have the hardest time finding guys.
The no-pressure situations are where I am ok. I was set up with a girl either last summer, or two summers ago. (they all run together). She had, allegedly, gangbanged the basketball team at her high school--I apologize for the visual-- but I didn't know that until after the fact. I went in with an attitude of what the hell, let's see what happens. After about 15 minutes I was ready to get out of there. I was completely relaxed, because I knew that I wasn't going to make this any more than what it was. She kept dropping hints about how I was so sweet, yada yada, how I was such a great guy, blah blah blah, but she freaked me out.
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Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
I fear looking like a lecherous yahoo if I get caught looking.
Haha! well, yes, there is such thing as taking it too far. If you're staring at a girl half your age, you're probably taking it too far. If you're drooling, you're definitly taking it too far.
This reminds me of a time when a guy I already knew through friends came up to me and said, "so, when are you going to give me your number?" And no, not as a playful joke cause I would have appreciated that...He was a complete cocky jackass when he said it.
But yeah, as long as you don't go the route of that guy, you'll most likely get a date. And plike I said in the other thread, it really makes a girl's day no matter what.
This thread feels like a chat room conversation at the moment.
So, seriously, is there any reason a girl would turn down a first date, other than having a boyfriend or being a complete biotch? So is this fear of rejection about 90% artificial, because most likely a girl is going to go out with you anyway?
If that's the case, I sure spent the last week of my life obsessing about nothing.
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Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
This thread feels like a chat room conversation at the moment.
So, seriously, is there any reason a girl would turn down a first date, other than having a boyfriend or being a complete biotch? So is this fear of rejection about 90% artificial, because most likely a girl is going to go out with you anyway?
If that's the case, I sure spent the last week of my life obsessing about nothing.
Well, that's tough because I can't really speak for other women. There could still be other reasons...the guy could simply rub her the wrong way (hopefully just figuratively speaking)...honestly, I don't have a lot of experience being asked or saying yes or no for certain reasons, so I'm not the best person to ask.
maybe they just know they won't be interested and so they don't want to lead you on?
Well, that's tough because I can't really speak for other women. There could still be other reasons...the guy could simply rub her the wrong way (hopefully just figuratively speaking)...honestly, I don't have a lot of experience being asked or saying yes or no for certain reasons, so I'm not the best person to ask.
The other people I have asked have also expressed the same sentiment. Which then makes me wonder why we fear the rejection so much if it's such a small possibility.
__________________
Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
My friends at work don't believe I'm shy. I'm not shy at work, that's for sure...
If I ever meet someone at work, it may not be as much of an issue. If we're in a meeting or teaching a class, I can dream up some way to start the conversation. Same thing with one of my customers (although, that obviously would have to be handled more carefully).
But, there's no one at work and most of my customers are hideous. That leaves the gym, coffee houses, the grocery store, etc. I really don't know how to handle myself in a grocery aisle or in line for coffee. It's too brief. I'm too scared.
The gym's worse. All I need is to feel awkward every tuesday and thursday night after the girl says "no."
So, I'm a moron and pathetic at both ends of the spectrum.
If my ex had not approached me, it's likely that I'd have never gotten up the nerve to ask her out, despite the fact that I'd seen her two or three times per week, for months (she worked at the pub where I played darts).
Haha! well, yes, there is such thing as taking it too far. If you're staring at a girl half your age, you're probably taking it too far. If you're drooling, you're definitly taking it too far.
Oh, I don't even bother with the 20 somethings anymore. No common ground.
Well...I can only think of one girl I ever actually asked out. The rest of the time it just seems to happen by itself....eh....with the help of a lot of alchohol. And it's pretty much always friends or work colleagues rather than complete strangers.
I should point out that I don't have a single ex that I'm not still friends with - in case I come accross like I've been taking advantage...
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Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. -- Sidney J. Harris
Interesting discussion...
I always had a hard time asking girls out. Like Roland, I am pretty shy in new social settings. Also, kind of like Nick, I always had a lot of girls that were friends in college and high school, but not a lot of girlfriends. My wife and I were actually set up by the girls that I hung out with my sophomore year in college. She lived on their floor. Otherwise, I would have never pursued her. She was 2 years older and didn't even know who I was! Needless to say, I am thankful for that hook-up.
Now that I'm older (and more confident), I'd like to think that I would just ask the girl if I was in Nick or Tony's situation. However, I'm not so sure. A lot of that confidence might have been generated by my relationship with my wife.
Nick- I think everyone has a tough time with it. Some, obviously, more than others. It's a fear of rejection and maybe a self-esteem issue. (Then again, look at Tony's abz. What's he trying to make up for? )
As I've gotten older it's become easier to ask women out, though still as nerve-wracking. I'm just not as hung up on the results now. If she doesn't want to go out, that means it wasn't meant to be, that's all. Better to find out right away, right?
This being said, I must still oblivious to women when they are interested. I can't tell you how many times they've made the first move on me. The last girl I really dated works at my gym and she had to leave a note for me one day asking me out. And I just got an e-mail from a girl in one of my classes asking me out. So, it seems like some women are tired of waiting to be asked out and just do it themselves. Though, I just thought of this, it could be the age group of the women I'm around compared to you.
"Talk, talk, talk, it's only talk"- Elephant Talk - King Crimson
That's all you're trying to do at the start. But there's one thing that puts the damper on it from the start - sex. When you see another person for the first time there's the physical attraction. Something that gets the "other brain" started first. And that gets in the way because you start projecting into the future. If you're projecting beyond the first five minutes you're going to F it up. I mean, you're not going to take the girl in the middle of class or on the checkout counter (although that would be freaking hot ). Take sex out of the picture and you'll be more relaxed and so will she. After that it's only talk.
And sometimes you just have to go for it. The first time I saw one woman damn if she didn't have the most beautiful eyes I had ever seen. Something just clicked that said "I have to get to know her". So I did. Was there a chance of going down in flames? Of course. But sometimes you just have to take that shot.
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
Though, I just thought of this, it could be the age group of the women I'm around compared to you.
Jim, it might be their biological clocks ticking away that has something to do with it!
I just eventually learned that you aren't going to get anywhere if you don't ask. So I just asked. And most of the time, they will say yes, because a majority of women aren't used to being asked out. You just need to man-up, don't act like an idiot and just ask away. If she says no, oh well. Move on and find the next girl.
__________________ If your dog is fat, you aren't getting enough exercise. -Unknown
This reminds me of a time when a guy I already knew through friends came up to me and said, "so, when are you going to give me your number?" And no, not as a playful joke cause I would have appreciated that...He was a complete cocky jackass when he said it.
But yeah, as long as you don't go the route of that guy, you'll most likely get a date. And plike I said in the other thread, it really makes a girl's day no matter what.
But that's just the problem. When does a guy cross the line from confident and assertive and becomes cocky? I'm utterly clueless and I'm not a particularly self-confident person, so I usually err on the side of caution... which means keeping quiet and leaving her alone.
__________________ The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same. -- Carlos Castaneda
I was talking to a friend yesterday. He had some interesting things to say on the whole thing. First he said that women that are physically attractive intimidate guys. They don't think they have a shot, or the woman has a boyfriend already, that they will make a fool of themselves, that she will say no or what ever the case maybe. So many of these women never get asked out or a lot of the times it is by the big jerk that looks at the situation as a conquer the mountain sort of thing. So I said what about the girl that isn't drop dead gorgeous but stays active and is in good shape etc, they don't get asked out either. We have a few friends that fit the bill there. So the whole thing is exactly the same, with the exception that a couple have a child or two. The deal there is the added oh crap she has kids (it is like the big flashing warning sign-stay away). I am speaking of people in my age bracket of course- thirty somethings. So these women get hit on but only for sex or they end up with a big jerk that they won't leave bc they figure its their last shot at having someone their to spend time with and to care about, OR they end up single and lonely.
Girls are just as afraid of being rejected as guys are. We are just as nervous. We make fools of ourselves too (ask me I'm totally the biggest dork around). Bottom line is none of these women have ever refused a first date. In fact Any time they are lucky enough to get asked out they are so happy you wouldn't believe it. Trust they start thinking what the hell is wrong with me that not one single guy wants to spend a little time with me? and not just because they outright just want to bang you and thats it.
Point is its rare to have a woman refuse to atleast go for a cup of coffee with you. So ask. My friend said he got to the point where now he looks at it this way... the worse that can happen is she says no, so many women rarely get asked out that when he does ask he rarely gets turned down. This guy has dated some amazing looking women, just because he asked.
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"My darling," she said at last, "are you sure you don't mind being a mouse for the rest of your life?"
"I don't mind at all," I said. "It doesn't matter who you are or what you look like so long as somebody loves you."
Ninja, everyone gets nervous about asking out pretty girls. Even the guys who are good with girls. They just handle it better. Though there are a few cocky jerks that really don't care, but they usually end up alone or unhappy (karma!).
I've found a really good way to spin the dating thing. When you're dating someone, or going to ask them out, don't approach as "will she like me?" or "i hope she likes me." Think to yourself, "I hope I like her." "Is she going to be someone I find interesting?" Don't put yourself on trial. Place the expectations on her. Bring your A-game, but remember, you only like her at first cus she's cute. You have no idea how big of a flake she could be once she opens her mouth!
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I don't think there's any generational difference in gutting it out to ask a girl on a date. In my opinion, it's mostly just personality differences. Some guys are more shy than others, less confident, etc. I used to be a borderline basket case trying to get up the nerve to ask a girl out, whereas my brother never had a problem with it at all. And I was nervous, even though most of the girls I asked out were back in high school, and I had already "felt things out" through the "friends network" before asking. Some people just have a harder time sucking it up than others, but in the end, you just have to suck it up and do it!
I thought everybody hooked up on the internet now, anyway. LOL! My brother has certainly gone this route successfully more than once.
Projecting confidence does seem to make a difference as well. I had way more dating opportunities when I was involved in one of my two serious relationships, presumably because I was more relaxed and confident. In fact, I was involved with my first serious girlfriend when I spontaneously linked up with my wife in college. I'm not sure that would have happened if I had been "single."
I don't think there's any generational difference in gutting it out to ask a girl on a date. In my opinion, it's mostly just personality differences. Some guys are more shy than others, less confident, etc. I used to be a borderline basket case trying to get up the nerve to ask a girl out, whereas my brother never had a problem with it at all.
I used to hang out with this one friend (who was a loser) who got all the girls. Cuz he asked, I guess... Of course, you couldn't tell he was a loser until it was too late. I need that guy back. I think I could handle the situation differently now... I'm more devious/desperate.
The biggest shock for me, over the past year or so, was that I really didn't think I'd have much trouble meeting women. When my wife dumped me, I figured that I'd be fine. I asked a couple of girls out when I was fat and they said yes then. Now, that I'm not fat, this would be easy. I'm not even shy anymore.
Well, I wasn't shy because I had a wife! I wasn't scoping things out. I was good and happy.
It was like a switch got turned back on. In my mind I'm a fat loser surrounded by women that must all be married, seriously dating, or not looking for this guy. Why talk? Just skulk away and don't make eye-contact.
The psychology of dating and relationships
Too bad it isn't.
)
). Take sex out of the picture and you'll be more relaxed and so will she. After that it's only talk.
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