Wanted to share this article on sleep sharing. This also talks about different practises of different cultures across the world. I was reading somewhere that sleep sharing is prevalent in at least 85% of the world population. It was discouraged at one time in the US by the pediatricians. Now you will find many researches and pediatricians in favour of sleep sharing. This publication has listed other publications as well on sleep sharing. This publication though not very recent (2000), is something worth reading.
For years, our kids would get to sleep in our bed as sort of a treat, like a slumber party. Plus, often, we'd wake up in the morning and find them sleeping next to us.
Now, they've moved on to the quiet of their own rooms (they're 8 and 9).
I don't see a problem with it. I'm sure it's been done since the caveman times. And, it sure helped (them and us) when they were sick or having trouble sleeping.
We were pretty adament early on about the kids learning to sleep on their own in their own beds. I know people who have their 5 and 6 year old kids still sleeping in the parental bed, and that just wouldn't fly with me in any way.
First of all, I like to put my kids down at 830 so I can have some quiet adult time with my wife, where we can watch TV, talk, or just enjoy an hour without the usual chaos. To sleep with us that would have to mean that we are going to bed at the same time as us.
Second, those poor saps who let their kids sleep with them most likely don't have healthy sex lives with their spouse. And they probably have trouble establishing boudaries with their children because they don't even have the spine to tell their kids to go sleep in their own beds, so they also tend to let the kids walk all over them in other areas.
As LD said, if they ever do it's because they have a nightmare, or it's some special occasion like when we all stay in a hotel room. Certainly not a regular thing though.
We were pretty adament early on about the kids learning to sleep on their own in their own beds. I know people who have their 5 and 6 year old kids still sleeping in the parental bed, and that just wouldn't fly with me in any way.
First of all, I like to put my kids down at 830 so I can have some quiet adult time with my wife, where we can watch TV, talk, or just enjoy an hour without the usual chaos. To sleep with us that would have to mean that we are going to bed at the same time as us.
Second, those poor saps who let their kids sleep with them most likely don't have healthy sex lives with their spouse. And they probably have trouble establishing boudaries with their children because they don't even have the spine to tell their kids to go sleep in their own beds, so they also tend to let the kids walk all over them in other areas.
As LD said, if they ever do it's because they have a nightmare, or it's some special occasion like when we all stay in a hotel room. Certainly not a regular thing though.
This is everything I would have said so I'll just add that I agree with these points
I'm with JP. I'll freely admit that you can raise a healthy, happy, normal kid that sleeps in your bed. The same is said if it doesn't. Show your kid affection and do your best to not screw it up on most levels...I don't think the location of where it sleeps as super high on the scale of potential ways to mess up your kid though.
I 4th what JP said, though I don't have kids yet. I actually think you CAN screw up kids by letting them sleep in your bed all the time, though.
It is my very humble opinion (not having kids of my own, knock on wood), that by allowing your children to sleep in your bed for many years, you create a fear of independence and reinforce an inability to be alone, to sleep alone, and to resolve issues by oneself. just my 2 cents for what its worth.
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I don't have kids, but I have dated women with them. Ok seems the majority of women I have dated have had them....
I'm gonna 5th JPs comments, especially these points, "First of all, I like to put my kids down at 830 so I can have some quiet adult time with my wife, where we can watch TV, talk, or just enjoy an hour without the usual chaos. To sleep with us that would have to mean that we are going to bed at the same time as us.
Second, those poor saps who let their kids sleep with them most likely don't have healthy sex lives with their spouse."
Og.
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In india, most of the parents practise sleep sharing. We do too to some extent. Our son has a separate room of his. He is in HIS bed by 9:30 and I sit with him and read stories and he falls off to sleep. After that it is just me and my husband. We leave our door open when we go to sleep in our bed at around 10:30 - 11:00. If he needs us in the middle of the night he walks into our bed.
We have a good and healthy sex life too. We have other rooms in the house so having sex while he is sleeping in our bed is not an issue. Moreover, we are usually done by the time he comes to join us.
Many Indian parents do 100% sleep sharing. Kids until the age of 5 sleep share. By then kids themselves are ready to leave the parent's bed. None of them complain about a hampered sex life. They are raising healthy kids as well.
I found this article interesting because it takes into account the various cultural aspects. Nothing to judge which can do more harm or good. Just different practices.
I suppose, though, if the future kid is willing to sleep on my feet (currently the cat's domain), and if it doesn't complain about being flung across the room when I roll over, it could join us on occasion.
I think if I had a "sex room" outside the bedroom I could buy off on the whole "shared sleep" thing a little more. I'd have a whole other outlook on life!
It's amazing that between cultures we have different ways of "raising kids right". Any bit of luck and we'll all be right.
My boys have their own room. My room is the only part of the house that's mine. Selfish .. yes but given that everything else is shared I don't feel bad about it. Besides if I ever get a man I don't want my kids walking in at the wrong time. Ok quit laughing it COULD happen.. Now having said that I do read to them every night, and pray they are tired enough to drop off fast. Time is so short its good to have time to think, alone.
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We did a lot of sleep sharing the first year of each kids life, that is because it is easiest when nursing.
Everything I have read about sleep sharing says it is a wonderful and healthy choice. One study showed that a child that sleep shares is better off. I haven't investigated because it hasn't been an issue in our home but I don't think people (JP) should be so hostile about it. We have never told our kids they can't come to our bed and our door is always open, they just don't to it. I figure it is because I have an uncanny ability to be instantly awake the minute they cry out or, on a very few occassions, their feet have hit the floor. I think I get to them before they even know they are awake.
I knew a 17 year old boy from China that had never slept alone and, when his parents sent him here to live with my employer, he couldn't sleep because he was alone.
In Japan the infant is seen more as a separate biological organism who from the beginning, in order to develop, needs to be drawn into increasingly interdependent relations with others. In America, the infant is seen more as a dependent biological organism who in order to develop, needs to be made increasingly independent of others".
Quote:
"American children are presumed to be trained to be self-reliant and to display their individuality by sleeping alone, and Japanese children are taught to "harmonize with the group" and, hence, "cosleep" with their parents. These observations relate to the different attitudes that Japanese and American parents have concerning the"nature"of the infant at birth, what developmental outcomes are desired, and what sleeping arrangement are presumed necessary to achieve them.
I can draw similar inferences towards India as well. We are taught to work well in group rather than independently. At work as well, we are expected to perform as a team. At home, many older parents are taken care of/financially supported by their earning children and they live together. A concept very commonly known as "joint family". I guess the sleeping habits are also derived from the cultural expectations.
Some part of it can also be attributed to economic constraint. I sleep shared with my elder sister because my dad could not afford more than 2 bedrooms. I sleep shared until I left home for school. Same with my husband, he sleep shared with his grandma, in the living room, because my dad-in-law could not afford more than a single bedroom. More economically affluent people can consider NOT sleep sharing because they can afford a single room for each kid.
In a way, sleep sharing is more biologically natural. Since the advent of agriculture and subsequent explosion of technology, humans have become less and less group oriented, more disconnected and more obsessed with "the individual."
This is, in my opinion, not the way we biologically evolved to exist - we're extremely gregarious, social creatures, yet our social and cultural constructs place extreme restrictions on this.
Of course, co-sleeping is not something I'm remotely interested in doing with my children, when I have them, but it's all very great food for thought.
Thanks again for the post, Ruma
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If people want to do this, more power to them. I think in our culture, it's looked down upon because of sexual taboos as much as anything else. Marital bed = sex. Kids in the bed means somethin' nasty could happen!
We lucked out in the sleeping department, as both of our girls have been good sleepers. Sometimes we had them in the bed as babies, but that always made me nervous and a restless sleeper. I was always afraid that I would roll over on the baby, or the baby would roll out of bed!
My younger daughter has occasionally climbed into our bed after a nightmare, but very rarely. That's fine with me, although somehow I always wind up being the one with the least amount of bedspace even though I'm the biggest.
My kids are more than welcome on rare occasions. (Thunderstorms, nightmares, etc) With that said I cam going to 6th JP comments down to the bed time by 8:30 for adult time.
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My younger daughter has occasionally climbed into our bed after a nightmare, but very rarely. That's fine with me, although somehow I always wind up being the one with the least amount of bedspace even though I'm the biggest.
That's what happened to me! My kids could care less about being pressed up against someone. But, me no likey. So, I'd slowly be pushed to the edge or bottom of the bed...
You know how cats do that pumping thing with their paws when the sleep? Both my kids do that with their hands and feet while they sleep. Sometimes it was easier to go to their room and finish out the night!
We did the sleep sharing. When my daughter was born she was 2.25 pounds at 32.5 weeks. Spent 9 weeks in NICU, left when she was 5 pounds. While she was fine she had some problems remembering to breath; if she got cold she'd stop. We had a little alarm for her but our house (at 100yrs old) isn't exactly efficient. After a week of my waking up every hour to turn off the alarm I finally put her in my bed. We all slept for a change.
At 7 she sleeps alone unless she gets scared, which happens once in a while. Lighting doesn't bother her but thunder does. Now she'll crawl into bed with me at 7am or so....I'm usually out of the up by then so I only notice it on the weekends if I happen to sleep in. She's also at the point where if she sees me sleeping in bed in the afternoon she won't wake me.
As far as downtime, I have no TV in my room, never have, never will. When I want to wind down I'll head to my study (other side of house from bedrooms) and read or play a game.
Funny thing, if we were in a hotel she'd never leave her bed.
Since my wife is currently pregnant we've done a decent amount of reading in this type of subject and we've asked some of the more successful parents we know.
We won't be doing sleep sharing for many of the reasons JP mentioned. My sister did it and the kids is almost 3 and she won't go to sleep without my sister laying next to her. Which is a huge hassle. Also I don't want to worry about rolling over on the kid. If parents get a good nights sleep they can be better parents in the morning.
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[quote=Jean-Paul
First of all, I like to put my kids down at 830 so I can have some quiet adult time with my wife, where we can watch TV, talk, or just enjoy an hour without the usual chaos. To sleep with us that would have to mean that we are going to bed at the same time as us.
Second, those poor saps who let their kids sleep with them most likely don't have healthy sex lives with their spouse. And they probably have trouble establishing boudaries with their children because they don't even have the spine to tell their kids to go sleep in their own beds, so they also tend to let the kids walk all over them in other areas.[/quote]
JP
I think your comments address the "normal" approach a la Dr. Spock, but I think that you mistakenly link "adult time" (be it conversation, sex, whatever) with sleeping arrangements.
"And they probably have trouble establishing boudaries with their children because they don't even have the spine to tell their kids to go sleep in their own beds, so they also tend to let the kids walk all over them in other areas."
I am not sure where you are coming from with this one, except that I think you are assuming that people who do not have seperate sleeping situation, do so because they cannot. This, seperate arrangment is a very recent (historically speaking) occurence. Even in the US shared beds were VERY common until before WW2. It was not until after the war that sepperate rooms became the norm in North America.
What if I said (since I do sleep with my kids) that people who do not sleep with their kids are cold-hearted and have not really bonded with their children. A riduculous statement I am sure you would agree, but not so dissimilar from your claim.
What is normal is culturally driven, and then influenced by current medicial (particularly in the west) trends. A few examples,
Babies in the west were put in be face down because it was healthier (that approach has now changed). baber boomers were often raised on formula because it was healthier than mother's milk.
If you were born between 1960-mid-seventies, you probably were raised on formula for health reasons. Only people who were wierd or could not afford to used formula raised their children on mother's milk in North America.
If you were born ANYTIME before 1930 anywhere in the world it is likely (unless you were very rich) that you bed shared, either with parents or siblings. I predict that you will see shift in this. Some pediatricians have already moved in this direction.
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Some thooughts.
Many of the posts have talked about how sleep sharing would inconvenience them, these things can easily be worked around if you do make a decision to sleep share. If this is your greatest inconvenience as a parent then you are on easy street. lol
If you are worried about "lost time" I would say get rid of the TV and the computer LOL
Anyway, as a sleep sharer, I think it is great. I love waking up with a foot in my face, though as they grow the "cute little feet are less amusing LOL.
Ruma I am sure you know where I am coming from.
Peter
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I am aware that this is a cultural norm. In fact, I know a few people of Asian descent who did it, and when they came to America actually had trouble sleeping alone. My brother and I shared a bedroom and even a bed many times when we shared rooms growing up. I was 13 when I got my first room that was all mine (good timing!).
However, in my comments I was not talking about people with that cultural background. I just remember talking to a few hystrionic women (and their sad, sexless spouses) who let their kids rule their lives. They aren't happy with the situation, they are just powerless to change it. I suppose since I didn't qualify my statement better it probably did come across as insensitive. Was not the intention though.
Ocassional sleeping in the same bed is fun every now and then. In fact, nothing is more blissful that curling up with one of my napping babies (in their bed). I just like having my own sleeping quarters way too much though. I like going to bed when I want, and not having to worry about waking them up when I get up (430am).
My two boys share a room, but I gave them bunk beds so they don't have to keep each other up sleeping in the same bed. My older boy likes to fall asleep reading his books. It was probably a cultural norm because there weren't many other options, but now I just don't see the reason for it.
Once again, I slept in my parents bed for an extended period of time, and I NEVER had issues sleeping alone. Hell, I hardly ever slept in my bed before I was 7.
It was probably a cultural norm because there weren't many other options, but now I just don't see the reason for it.
I used to think so, too. However the more I read about it (and thought about it) the more "sense" it seemed to make to me. It is certainly more natural in the "history" of mankin sense and by comparison to other primates. (I get this vision of BF Skinner and the little monkey clinging to the wire surrogate mother from psyche class years ago) . I suspect that there will be a big shifty in thinking in the west towards this ( the shift has already started ) and I think it will become the norm in North America too (btw, I slept in my own bed since infancy - also a product of North American culture, I was also bottle fed).
I do not kinow if there is ever a "right" or "wrong" answer to this, and I hope that no-one takes my posts in that way. JP, I apologiose if I came down "too hard" on your post, but your were taking the "tough guy" approach LOL and I couldn't help myself.
I think that different things will work for different peple/families in different ways. I think the worse thing to do is to "impose" what you do not feel comfortable doing on youself because it is supposedly the best thing to do according to recent trends in childrearing ( and these change so often).
For example, I think that for JP the best solution is the one that he and Erica chose to take. For others, there are other equally suitable solutions.
Thanks to everyone for there posts, this was an interesting thread.
Peter
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I understand what you're saying Pete. In fact, I can completely relate on a slightly unrelated but for some reason emotional (to some people) topic... Circumcision.
I chose not to do it to my boys. Seems weird to me that we would cut off some part of our god-given anatomy for what seemed to be habit. My parents didn't really give me the choice... I was born in an ARMY hospital in 1968. I don't really know that even they had a choice.
Fast forward thirty years to the birth of my first son, and people who happened to hear that we weren't planning to do it -- even total strangers -- would practically assault us with their dogmatic hellfire and circumcision sermons. I even had a nurse of all people lecture me on it! Not that it was any of their business anyway, but I was amused at how much it seemed to bother people. I deviated from the cultural norm though, so I paid the price.
What most people do around us is termed "normal". The tendency to be normal kind of blocks our minds from thinking in a different way also. I am very sure, if I were to preach "Non-Sleep-Sharing" in east I would meet the same reaction, as I would if I were to preach Sleep Sharing in west. Because sleep sharing is considered normal in east and not so normal in west. One of the reasons why this article interested me, because it mentioned that American pediatricians are now preaching in favour of Sleep sharing and the number is growing. If that were to happen, will see another thought shift in child rearing.
Peter, me and you are a different breed of Normal people. We had the opportunity to live in a culture different than our own. So our views will be softer towards both the anti and the pro sleep sharing. But if you were to ask any mayan woman (this is an excerpt from the article)
Quote:
Upon hearing that American babies are made to sleep alone Mayan women respond with "shock, disapproval and pity" and think of the practice as "tantamount to child neglect" (24)
I don't agree with this thought either. I have met many Americans who have slept on their own since infancy and still turned out normal and with lots of love towards family. So it's just what we are programmed to think as "Normal". To that extent I did not find JPs comment offensive because I know my parents would have reacted in a similar fashion if I told them infants should be made to sleep in their own bed.
So my helmet headed friend, some good news coming your way. The most common reason (excepting Jewish people) for circumcision in the US is so that "they" will look like their friends. However with the trend is now NOT to.
Boys of our genration were Snipped for hygiene reasons (asinine). But the pndulum has swung again and you son my end up in the majority with the other anteaters LOL
BTW, I at first thought to have my boys snipped until I looked into it and found NO (imo) concievable reason to that. BTW, have you ever seen a viddy of a baby that has just undergone it- nasty.
Ruma
"We had the opportunity to live in a culture different than our own."
Does that mean you are not Indian (or you are from a differnet sub-culture from the majority of where you live) or do you mean you lived overseas?
Great thread JP and Ruma!
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Sleep sharing
I'd have a whole other outlook on life!
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