Ok, so my best friend (John) of 16 years is getting married on March 21st. His girlfriend is this fat (nothing wrong with that) trailer park trash (she really is trashy -- like she wears tube tops and short shirts so u can like see her ass hanging out, it's gross). She cheated on him like 5 yers ago (HS sweethearts, eww). Now on to the part, "I have to apologize for." For weeks everytime I would go over his place she would go in the bedroom and close the door right when I walked in.
So back in December, I believe, John and I were talking about some computer game over IM. Anyway during our conversation his fiance at the time took over the comp, and started talking to me, and right away goes:
"This is [John's Fiance's Name here]: The game is stupid"
so jokingly, since it's only a game I replied :
"This is Keith: You're a douche." followed by "LOL"
Anyway she got really pissed and went into this big hissy fit about how I "take things too far".
Anyway the name signs off and then comes back on about 15 minutes later and says:
"Hey, this is John, sorry about that, she's really drunk."
anyway, we spoke for a minute and I said something like:
"She's lucky I didn't tell her to just go smoke some pot and go to sleep like she normally does."
Anyway, it turned out to be her, she get SUPER pissed off (because it's true).
We didn't speak for about a week when I decided to let him know about her infidelities(2). He said he knew.
Now I'm not invited to the wedding, and he isn't "allowed to talk to me". I just spoke with his mom and she said he's mad at me and wants me to apologize to him for the comments I made about her.
Personally I don't want to, and if he's so much of a pansy that he can't talk to me on his own terms then I don't think I need to be friends with him anymore. BUT his mom really wans me at the wedding, and I feel bad because his family has always been there for me, I'm still really close with his brother.
Any thoughts, comments, and suggestions are welcome, and thanks for reading such a long post.
I think you could apologize after all you offended her. Accept it or not he is going to marry her and he must love her, it's his decision and although friends are there to be honest, they are also there to support whatever dumbass decisions they make in their personal lives. You mentioned that he is your best friend so put any pride aside and support him, If he regrets it one day, so be it, you don't even have to say "I told you so".
This reminds me of that movie with the kid from American Pie and Amanda Pete. Kidnap her, fake her death, and introduce him to some new, hot broad. It worked in the movie - it should work for you too!
This is a tough one, Keith. My gut tells me that so long as this woman is in the picture, you will drift away from your friend and lose him. She clearly doesn't like you (evident by her going to her bedroom when you're around; telling you your game is stupid), and if your friend marries her, it is going to be very difficult for him to maintain a good relationship with the both of you. That's just the simple truth of the matter.
So, the apology may work in the short term but I doubt it will do much in the long term. I suspect this would be the case even if your friend had a stronger will; given that he apparently has no spine, it is inevitable.
If you don't see a future in your friendship with John, then I guess I wouldn't apologize. If you think, despite what I've said, you can salvage and maintain this friendship, then do as the politicians do and "apologize" without really apologizing, along the lines of "If I did anything to offend you, then I very much regret doing it." The conditional "if" acts to make the "apology" meaningless (i.e. you didn't do anything to offend her; the fact she was offended is irrelevant). In addition, by saying "regret" and not "sorry", you're not really apologizing for your actions anyway, you just regret them. Gotta love the English language, huh? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
k-court... thats similar to what i was telling keith on AIM. Apologize for somehow hurting the friendship or offending him, but not for what you actually did. That way, you avoid being ingenuine but still appease the situation.
Sorry but I have to disagree with Shark and K-court, and tell you to suck it up and apologise in sincerity.
If your nameless friend is a friend (and even though he may drift away because of the witch in the future), you are obligated by the nature of friendship to be honest, and then accept what decides to do (in this case marry the witch) and support him as best you can with his decision. If you apologise, you must be sincere or it "cheapens" you. You become a hypocrite. If you cannot bring yourself to sincerely apologise ( even for the sake of your friend and his family), then be true to yourself and DO NOT APOLOGISE. I would hope that you can find it within yourself to sincerely apologise for the sake of your friendship.
'Scuse my french, but FUCK THAT! I would NOT apologize. If he's your friend then he wouldn't shut you out of his life over a girl. If he does, then he's not your friend. If my friends let me make a mistake like that without at least TRYING to warn me I would hold it against them when I came to my senses.
In addition to NOT apologizing, I would say something subtle like, "Run your house, dog!" He needs to hear it. True friends tell each other the truth, even when it hurts.
i'm not a boy so i have no idea. i know that sounds like a cop out but it's not. girls and boys interact very differently. good lucky though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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Heh... Started my post and walked off, came back and finished my thought, only to see that Pete gave the same advice. Sheesh, Ya beat me to it!
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I'm confused. I don't see how you and Pete gave the same advice at all, JP. He said to apologize; you had quite a different foreign language piece of advice. Am I missing something?
I'd get new friends. If thats not an option, then frankly it sounds like you're getting her side of events. Go grab him, drink some beers and talk. If he doesnt straighten up, then let him go.
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Heh... Started my post and walked off, came back and finished my thought, only to see that Pete gave the same advice. Sheesh, Ya beat me to it!
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I'm confused. I don't see how you and Pete gave the same advice at all, JP. He said to apologize; you had quite a different foreign language piece of advice. Am I missing something?
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Oops... That's what I get for scanning. This is what made me post that addendum: "If you cannot bring yourself to sincerely apologise ( even for the sake of your friend and his family), then be true to yourself and DO NOT APOLOGISE." Thought he was agreeing with me. I'm a dork.
In some sense, I do agree with JP. I do see where JP is coming from, but I think that for a friend of 16 years it is not much to do.
BUT if you cannot be sincere when apologise, you are worse than her. She may be a witch, but you are a hypocrite. In that case do not apologise. But I hope you will.
pete - what's wrong with apologizing for making someone feel bad or hurting a friendship, but not being sorry for what you said? If he firmly believes that his buddy's fiance is a piece of shit that's hurting his friend, why is he wrong for giving his buddy a heads up?
Sorry it hurt the friendship, but not sorry he was honest. That's how I would apologize - and it WOULD be sincere.
Yeah I'm def. not losing sleep over this, but I'm upset that he would let this come between 16 years of friendship. But if he's not going to attempt to get his balls back, I think I'm going to have to say fuck him.
keep your trap shut. you and his wife have to get over your dislike for each other because no amount of apologising is going to help the situation. you think he's making a mistake and all three of you know that, doesn't really bode well for either relationship.
IF you do apologise, then you really have to get over him and her. Sometimes a buddy wants to get pissy drunk. A good friend IMO feeds'em drinks while keeping them in a "not going to accidently break something" place, mabey brings by a girl now and then, makes sure he doesn't pick a fight with something that'd whip his ass. And when they pass out you roll'em on their side.
The whole situation could be avoided if they'd listen and not get drunk in the first place. But sometimes it's better for a friendship to let the other make mistakes and support them reguardless without judgement than it would be to do the smart thing and avoid the mess to begin with
1) You were clearly joking on-line, and even if you weren't you included LOL, and it was AFTER she said something of yours was dumb.
2) The second time you offended her you were talking to "your buddy".
I agree with JP and DP. If you are not sorry for what you said do not apologize.
I personally think she owes you one as much as you owe her one.
Other thought. If she is offended why the fuck would you need to apologize to your friend for offending her? If he needs you to apologize he should tell you. I also don't agree with her not allowing him to talk to whomever he wants. Fuck that.
Shark wrote:
what's wrong with apologizing for making someone feel bad or hurting a friendship, but not being sorry for what you said? If he firmly believes that his buddy's fiance is a piece of shit that's hurting his friend, why is he wrong for giving his buddy a heads up?
Shark I think that when you apologise you should be sincere. The apology that is "required" is an apology for what was said, not an "I'm sorry that I said your future wife is a witch. (But i think it.) If he was going to give his buddy the "heads up" a remark like he made, "She's lucky I didn't tell her to just go smoke some pot and go to sleep like she normally does." is in my opinion not the way to do it.
I think that if the friendship has any value, then that value deserves sincerity, and if he cannot get to the a point where he feels an apology is in order, then he should not offer a phoney apology. To tell the truth I do believe that he owes not only his friend an apology, but also to his friend's fiancee.
To his friend: He insulted his friend's fiancee, whether it is true or not is irrelevant.
To his friend's fiancee: he was rude.
That "fact" that his friend's fiancee was imitating his friends DOES not change the fact that he was rude and wrote about her in a derogatory manner. SHE does owe him IMO and her fiance (his friend) an apology as well. But whether she does apologise or not is also irrelevant.
HE is responsible for his actions and they were imo, rude. (she was deceitful and violated her fiance personal space and unfairly represented herself as her fiance) But I believe that a gentleman should not be constrained in acting like a gentleman by the "belief" that the other party will not hold themselves to the same high standard.
You can't be sincerely sorry you hurt your friendship and your friends feelings while still firmly believing in what you said and being glad you said it?
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You can't be sincerely sorry you hurt your friendship and your friends feelings while still firmly believing in what you said and being glad you said it?
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>still firmly believing in what you
Yes
>and being glad you said it?
No, becasue that is what you SHOULD be apologosing for. That is what was rude (IMO) and hurtful. (even if it is true)
Imagine you have a friend that is way overweight.
You, " Holy shit, you are a fat pig!"
I think if you are sorry, you cannot be" glad you said it? "
A friend would say something about weight and health (as they would about a drunken fiancee) but NOT IN THAT WAY
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Shark wrote:
SHE does owe him IMO and her fiance (his friend) an apology as well. But whether she does apologise or not is also irrelevant.
HE is responsible for his actions and they were imo, rude. (she was deceitful and violated her fiance personal space and unfairly represented herself as her fiance) But I believe that a gentleman should not be constrained in acting like a gentleman by the "belief" that the other party will not hold themselves to the same high standard.
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Well said, two wrongs don't make a right. Maybe he should feel bad for saying it and maybe he should apologize.
I still say hearing it from the Mom is not the correct way for them to have conveyed the issue. If they are adults they should have been able to talk to Keith face to face, not NOT talk to him, and say his buddy wasn't allowed to, I mean what is this grade 3?
I say get the girl a six pack of Pabst Blue Ribbon and a pack of Basic cigarrettes. If she's like the trashy girls I've known before, the situation will be handled.
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Personally I don't want to, and if he's so much of a pansy that he can't talk to me on his own terms then I don't think I need to be friends with him anymore.
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This summarizes how I feel about the situation. Go with it imo. Just explain to his mom or whoever how you feel about it and hopefully she'll understand. I would not apologize.
Should I Apologize?
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