I'm just completing stage one and have made huge strength gains (up to body weight squats/dead lifts... and very smug about it!! ) with every lift....except shoulder presses. Turns out I'm totally clown shoes at shoulder pressing. Started off at 15lbs (each hand!!) and now have reached...20lbs.(3x8)..can just about manage 25x3x5.
I'm guessing that the rest of the programme will sort this out, and I'm resisting doing additional delt training (I am a reformed isolation chick!!), so the question's 2 fold. 1) Why am I having issues with this and 2) what have others found?
I'm kind of in the same boat - basically I can squat a little over my body weight and DL a little under (damn smug about this too!). As for my DB shoulder presses, I also started at 15. By the end of stage 1, I also went for 25 and ended up doing 20x2x8 and 25x1x6. I finally managed to get to eek out 25x3x8 by, as you said, adding just one more round of workouts A AND B - and I'll add that I did compromise form on the last rep, so that's not particularly smart
That said, two things:
1) One of the trainers commented that doing a shoulder presses with 20 lbs was already quite impressive! Suggesting that being able to press almost half one's body weight means that you've got some seriously strong shoulders - so right on girl! I think you've already made great gains and anything more will definitely happen within the next stages.
2) Not sure about what kinds of issues might occur if we don't follow the programs to a T. Yes I added 1 round of workouts, do I think this is particularly wrong, no - but do I think that there's clearly a reason Alwyn et al. wrote the programs up in a certain way, yes. So, I guess it just comes down to whether you want to be a NROL4W purist or not. I've mentioned in some of my other posts that I tweaked the programs slightly for the sake of convenience/practicality, so I guess tweaking the programs slightly for the sake of...um...ego(?) shouldn't be that much of an issue. However, and this def goes for me, we should be careful about the pitfalls of wanting too much too soon.
Thanks Lil Messi..... you've called it. I'm in ego land!!!!!! I want it all and I want it now!! I've made a promise to myself that I'll follow NRL4W without modification to the training programme (having said that I might now add an extra A and B to stage one instead of doing the bonus workouts, I would like to shoulder press 25x3x8).
Thanks so much for your reply, it's good to know that I'm not the only one with SP issues. What stage are you at right now?
Haha! No, you're def not the only one with SP issues!
I actually did just that! Instead of doing the two bonus AMRAP workouts, I decided to add on the two extra workouts thinking, "let's just see how far we can go" I figured I knew I had made gains, so the AMRAP would be...er...redundant. Is that wrong?
Anyways, I just finished Stage 1 last week and I'm taking a full week off starting today to "deload." However, I'm still planning on doing some cardio/pilates and I would really like take one day (just one day!) this week to go through the new excersizes in stage 2 - no or very minimal weight, just so that I can get the motions all sorted out before I officially start Stage 2 next week (and hopefully I can get a trainer buddy to correct my form! that would be ideal).
Also, I decided that I'm going to be lifting only 2x a week while i'm in soccer season - so this might slow down my pace a bit, but this could be a good thing...
Just be sure not to let your ego get in the way of good form (not saying you are, but just in case). Especially with squatting. It's taken me over 2 years to get to BW squatting below parallel. Don't pile on weight without being certain you are going low enough. Nothing good about partial squatting, just to do it. Take a look at this thread:
And, as I read in one of Lyle's articles....if you aren't DLing more than you are squatting, then you aren't squatting low enough.
I am done with 8 of the 16 stage 1 workouts. I can squat 105 lbs but I can only dead lift 75 lbs. And the comment above doesn't make sense to me... if I'm not dead lifting MORE than I'm squatting, what does that have to do with my squats? Am I reading it wrong?
You should be able to DL more than you squat. If you aren't, then chances are you just aren't squatting low enough. If you WERE squatting low enough, then the weight you squat would be lower than your DL (ie, you'll need to take some weight off the bar to get your ass lower -- below parallel --in your squat).
Lil Messi: You're spot on... we are living parallel lives!! I'm at Stage one A7, tomorrow's B7. I've decided to do A/B 8 again instead of the bonus workouts. I know it's going to be hell taking a week off (so I'm going to do some cardio and pilates during that week, but not push myself), I've got a very bad history of over training and one of the reasons I'm doing NRL4W is to get that sorted out.
Seems like a really good idea to lift twice a week during the football season. I'm from the UK and I've seen a lot of men over train during football/rugby season... they loose strength when they're lifting and usually end up carrying an injury before Christmas.
Good call on getting a trainer mate to check your form... I do exactly this when ever I'm changing programmes, and then a couple of times during... it's so valuable. Although I'm pleased to be able to use this forum too.... he thinks some of my questions are very funny (the SP one in particular... I got this answer from him "you do really well for the love child of a care bear and strawberry shortcake").
Missjane:I think the goddess of lifting is trying to tell me something! Yesterday I had a conversation with a speed trainer (not mine!) who told me I wasn't pushing myself enough on dead lifts.
I've just had a year off lifting due to cancer, (given I had fallen into the isolation training trap by that point). Before that I was squatting about 1.5 bw. It took me around 18mnths to get there, but I've got stupidly strong legs and I love squats . I'm quite confident of my form (I'd never say it was true, true form, but it's apparently very good). I do get it checked very regularly by an oly lifting trainer. Form's something I'm very mindful of and I will (usually) drop weight to correct form when I'm slipping.
Thanks for the reminder about ego.... I need that (on a very regular basis). I lift in a very male orientated weight room and had to fight a real battle to be taken seriously (general opinion is that 'girls' should stick to the treadmill and aqua aerobics and if we must 'play' with the weights the weights should be pink and we should be dressed in pink Lycra!), and although I'm not proud of it (and must do more work at getting away from this psychology), I do like the shocked looks from the ecto, curl addicted boys when I lift heavy. I find it very amusing that they can not get their heads around the fact a woman can lift heavy and not look like a Bulgarian shot putter (with no disrespect to Bulgarian shot putters). So thanks for the call.
Wow, I couldn't imagine dead lifting that much! I'm pretty confident that my squat form is right (and low enough). I find that my lower back starts to hurt when I increase my DL weight, is it possible I am doing something wrong? Or should I just give it some time...
Just be sure not to let your ego get in the way of good form (not saying you are, but just in case). Especially with squatting. It's taken me over 2 years to get to BW squatting below parallel. Don't pile on weight without being certain you are going low enough. Nothing good about partial squatting, just to do it. Take a look at this thread:
Wow, I couldn't imagine dead lifting that much! I'm pretty confident that my squat form is right (and low enough). I find that my lower back starts to hurt when I increase my DL weight, is it possible I am doing something wrong? Or should I just give it some time...
Take a video of yourself squatting and DLing, post it here, and we can let you know.
Lara...don't feel bad. You're not behind anything. IMO lifting is about self against self (and some bloody heavy bits of metal). We all have different genetics and body types. In general it's going to be more difficult for a woman who's mostly ectomorph to lift as heavy as the chick who's lucky enough to have some mesomorph in her make up.
If you're making gains then you're not behind.... if you're in a plateau, then ask why, and then move upwards.
I'd love to lift like Melanie Roach...but it's very, very, very doubtful that even with years and years of training I'd ever get there. In fact it's more likely that I'll become an astronaut!! Doesn't stop me bouncing about like a mad thing when I've reached a new PB!!
I'm just completing stage one and have made huge strength gains (up to body weight squats/dead lifts... and very smug about it!! ) with every lift....except shoulder presses. Turns out I'm totally clown shoes at shoulder pressing. Started off at 15lbs (each hand!!) and now have reached...20lbs.(3x8)..can just about manage 25x3x5.
I'm guessing that the rest of the programme will sort this out, and I'm resisting doing additional delt training (I am a reformed isolation chick!!), so the question's 2 fold. 1) Why am I having issues with this and 2) what have others found?
Thanks in advance for your help.
I think all the shoulder exercises are hard, too. Your delts are actually several tiny muscles, so it's easy to fatigue them. And moving from 15 to 20 lbs is a gain of 1/3, which is huge. There are lots of other shoulder moves coming up that are really killer, too, so don't worry.
gymbunny, when i get lower back pain from DLs, it's usually because i'm not keeping the bar against my shins when going up & down. i tend to go out on the descent part unless i'm really concentrating on not doing so.
Lara...don't feel bad. You're not behind anything. IMO lifting is about self against self (and some bloody heavy bits of metal). We all have different genetics and body types. In general it's going to be more difficult for a woman who's mostly ectomorph to lift as heavy as the chick who's lucky enough to have some mesomorph in her make up.
If you're making gains then you're not behind.... if you're in a plateau, then ask why, and then move upwards.
I'd love to lift like Melanie Roach...but it's very, very, very doubtful that even with years and years of training I'd ever get there. In fact it's more likely that I'll become an astronaut!! Doesn't stop me bouncing about like a mad thing when I've reached a new PB!!
great points! I think a big part of it is I have been in a deficit a lot of the time and for me to lose fat I have to really lessen the intensity of the workouts so its not like I have been really working on gaining strength/muscle. But even the "untrained" weights seemed on the high side to me. I have been working on form a lot and feel it is pretty good so hopefully now that I am almost back to eating maintenance calories I can focus on building strength.
Evie: Thanks..you're right. I have made gains. I've just gone back to my very first training log, and I had the same issues back then. I'm just expecting too much of my shoulders and paying too little attention to the physiology !!!!
Lara: As soon as you're out of deficit and able to push the intensity, you know you'll get strength gains. More to eat and stronger..does life get any better!!!
There's another aspect to DLs that some of you may not be considering: grip strength. It took me awhile before my hands were able to hold enough to challenge the rest of my body on, for example, DLs and step-ups. That could be one reason for higher weight squats than DLs.
Just curious how long it took people before they started noticing definition in their muscles. I am starting my 4th week and was hoping to see a little definition. I know I am gaining strength as my logs show, but I can't see it body wise. Not that I'm really expecting to see anything in 4 weeks, but can't wait until I get rid of my elephant ear arms.
I just finished my 8th workout (so almost 3 weeks) and I can already see some definition in my abs. When I flex my arms, they are more clearly defined than before I started... still waiting on leg definition and fat loss...
I beleive I started to see some arm definition around the end of Stage 1. I definitly noticed a change in my arms during Stage 2. For me, when I cross my arms, I was suddenly feeling firm biceps that had never been there before. I started seeing definition in the shoulder muscles during Stage 3.
I'm on Stage 4 now and am hoping for further defintion in my arms. The sad part is that I can only really see the changes when my arm is flexed or from certain angles, jsut looking at my relaxed arm in the mirror it still looks soft and flabby instead of toned. However, during snatches in Stage 3, I could totally see the difference in my arms going through the motions.
I can also see some added muscle in my legs (quads larger, calfs firmer) and have had one of the gym rats comment on their progress.
Stage 1 strength gain question.
) with every lift....except shoulder presses. Turns out I'm totally clown shoes at shoulder pressing. Started off at 15lbs (each hand!!) and now have reached...20lbs.(3x8)..can just about manage 25x3x5.
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