I have been reading alot of posts about how awful the Smith Machine can be when it comes to squats. After doing my first set of sqauts with the oly bar, I can totally understand how the Smith Machine is so unnatural and could potentially cause harm to my body.
So then WHY is the trainer at my gym having his women clients use the Smith Machine to do squats??? I was considering hiring him for a few sessions until I saw this. Does this mean he is a bad trainer? Does he even know what he is doing? Based on the other exercises he has his clients do, I thought he was pretty creative but my jaw dropped when I saw her on the Smith Machine...
No, it does not make him a bad trainer! You have no way of knowing why he is having some of his clients use this device.
If you are thinking about hiring him, why don't you try asking him questions about the type of routine he may create for you? If you liked his creativity with some exercises, it may be beneficial to help you mix your routine up to fight boredom. There is no reason to assume he will force you to use the Smith machine.
That being said, there are reasons gyms carry Smith machines (and all the other Hoist, Nautilus, et al. weight-lifting machines). They are the best choice for some people, just probably not for you. If you tell the trainer that you are interested in keeping your routine to free weights and cable exercises, he should listen. If he doesn't, that is what might indicate that he is a bad trainer.
Maybe they're rehabbing. Maybe they're afraid of free weights. Maybe he's stuck into having to use it as per gym regulations for some silly reason (like they want to push usage of some eqpt). *shrug*
I agree you can simply interview him, ask him questions, and then decide if he'd be right for you. I've known people I'd call good trainers that have been known to put people on the smith. I think maybe they didn't buy into the idea that it's THE WORST THING EVAR (tm) or just that they've found ways to get around it's limitations some (there are ways… something about leaning into the bar, not really being under it… or somesuch).
If you don't like his answers, don't go with him. If you don't agree with the smith but he wouldn't put it in your routine… *shrug*
Every single one of the trainers at my gym use the Smith Machine. I've seen them train every person on it for squat, deads, bench....you name it. I've seen them train people to CURL IN THE SQUAT RACK. I honestly don't even know how they even became trainers because they train so poorly. The things I see just make me shake my head. The few times I've spoken to a trainer they had no clue what I was talking about.
There isn't a trainer at my gym that I would pay one cent. Oh, there used to be ONE, but he went off to med school.
*snort*
That's honestly why I was so picky about gyms (and shelled out the nose for it, dayum). Between most around here not even having a squat rack, let alone a power cage… and what I imagine the trainers being like… *shudder*
At this point, I feel like I can learn more from a book... and this forum
So true...between all the advice I've gleaned from my time here, Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength book and video, Cosgrove, Remedios, Cressey, and others.....I definitely feel that way!!
With the exception of my strength coach, who is highly qualified, there isn't anyone around my gym whom I trust.
I wouldn't put somebody on a Smith for squatting, but I don't see how it's terribly worse than a leg press, which I would use with some people. They're basically the same thing, only the leg press is more convenient.
It's useful for upper body work in some instances, too. Also for some kinds of ballistic exercises.
Can't say I'd make it a priority in many cases, but you never know.
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What exactly is the dreaded 'Smith Machine'? I generally use free weights but occasionally I have been forced to use something completely different, and I believe it may be the same thing, but not entirely sure.
Sorry for the not-quite-intelligent question. I tend to stick to free weights.
I had an interesting discussion with a trainer at the gym last night. This is a trainer who's gotten sort of chummy with me, so I decided to confront him. This is after I saw him (for the first time ever) training a female client in the squat rack. Problem was, she was MAYBE half squatting. And this trainer kept adding weight for each additional set.
So, I caught him in his office and the following ensued:
Me: Can I as you a couple questions?
Trainer: Sure
Me: Why would you train someone to do squats and not train proper form and ROM?
Trainer: Because she can't go that low
Me: Well, wouldn't that indicate to you that she has some mobility issues you should work on with her instead of increasing the weight and having her do half squats? What's the benefit of that?
Trainer: My only goal is that she get a metabolic boost from her training. And half squats will do that. I can hit her glutes with other movements. I only have 3 months to get her to see the benefit of training (**I guess that's how much she signed on for**), so I do what I have to do.
Me: And sacrificing form is OK with you?
Trainer: Sometimes
Me: OK, well thanks for the answer, but I'm not buying it. Next question. Until today, I've never seen a trainer train squats in the squat rack. They always use the Smith Machine. It's such an unnatural movement. And, same as your client today, even the SM clients aren't squatting full depth.
Trainer: Well, people like to pile on the weight, it makes them feel good, and we can do that on the Smith Machine.
Me: Hmmm....that makes no sense at all to me.
Trainer: Look, you are in it for the long haul. We only have a short window with these clients, so we do what we have to do to make them happy and see results.
Me: Again, I don't agree, but thanks for taking the time to talk to me.
And, that is why I still stand by my original answer.
The picture is close to what I have been forced to use but not quite. For someone who has knee problems, the Smith Machine (or its equivelent) is not nice. It aggrevates my knee pain 100%. While I cannot perform a full squat (ROM issues), I concentrate on form and doing the best I can. The Smith Machine does not allow this.
I just googled the first picture. There are a lot of different variations, but the constant being that the bar is in a fixed position and just goes up and down along that track. If you've got that going on, then it's a Smith.
So then WHY is the trainer at my gym having his women clients use the Smith Machine to do squats??? I was considering hiring him for a few sessions until I saw this.
I gotta ask -- is it just the women? If so, I'd take it as a sign that he thinks women are weaker, and avoid him. If not (and using a squat rack is an option) let him know what your goals are and see if you can work out a plan with him.
I had an interesting discussion with a trainer at the gym last night. This is a trainer who's gotten sort of chummy with me, so I decided to confront him. This is after I saw him (for the first time ever) training a female client in the squat rack. Problem was, she was MAYBE half squatting. And this trainer kept adding weight for each additional set.
So, I caught him in his office and the following ensued:
Me: Can I as you a couple questions?
Trainer: Sure
Me: Why would you train someone to do squats and not train proper form and ROM?
Trainer: Because she can't go that low
Me: Well, wouldn't that indicate to you that she has some mobility issues you should work on with her instead of increasing the weight and having her do half squats? What's the benefit of that?
Trainer: My only goal is that she get a metabolic boost from her training. And half squats will do that. I can hit her glutes with other movements. I only have 3 months to get her to see the benefit of training (**I guess that's how much she signed on for**), so I do what I have to do.
Me: And sacrificing form is OK with you?
Trainer: Sometimes
Me: OK, well thanks for the answer, but I'm not buying it. Next question. Until today, I've never seen a trainer train squats in the squat rack. They always use the Smith Machine. It's such an unnatural movement. And, same as your client today, even the SM clients aren't squatting full depth.
Trainer: Well, people like to pile on the weight, it makes them feel good, and we can do that on the Smith Machine.
Me: Hmmm....that makes no sense at all to me.
Trainer: Look, you are in it for the long haul. We only have a short window with these clients, so we do what we have to do to make them happy and see results.
Me: Again, I don't agree, but thanks for taking the time to talk to me.
And, that is why I still stand by my original answer.
That's an interesting answer, considering that doing things right (with proper form, real exercises, etc) tends to create larger gains for the amount of time invested.
So that's a really crappy answer, actually.
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The Smith Machine at my gym does not go straight up and down like that, it goes on an angle. I have no idea if that is better, worse, or the same.
My husband and I used it for three workouts, mostly becuase we both felt a little intimidated by the squat rack. Not so sure why he was, but I admit, I am afraid of dropping the bar (why that would happen I don't know -- in an unrelated note, I'm also afraid of heights, like standing on a balcony, becuase I am afraid I might spontaneoulsy throw myself off of it. Clearly fear of something completely unrealistic is one of my foes. But I digress...).
So today, I tried a few squarts on the squat rack with just the bar and no weights. It was way "easier" than I thought. That, and I did feel it differently. I think we'll be using it for our next workout.
Wow, Jane, that was a very enlighting exchange with the trainer. I do think he was giving you his honest truth about why he thinks training that way works for them (mainly financially, I guess). I see why you stay clear of them!!! I can see where they are coming from, but I think PowerManDL is right in that proper form would get them better results. 3 months?? That's plenty of time to get the form straighted out and see good results.
I've only seen a couple people at my gym using the Smith machine. I don't see trainers at my gym since I work out starting before 5am. I do have to share the power cage, sometimes even in those early AM hours. I think, from their dress, some are Crossfitters (or ex-Crossfitters?).
I gotta ask -- is it just the women? If so, I'd take it as a sign that he thinks women are weaker, and avoid him. If not (and using a squat rack is an option) let him know what your goals are and see if you can work out a plan with him.
I was surprised to find that doing squats with a real barbell is easier than it looks. My experience with the smith machine is only with bench press. In each workout that I used it, my shoulders hurt a little more than the last time. I ended up staying at the same weight, but doing fewer reps over time because my shoulders were screaming at me to stop. I'm glad I stopped when I did, before any lasting damage was done.
As far as I can tell, the Smith machine is designed to make you weaker and induce pain. So, if you think you're too strong and need a way to go back to being a gym weakling, then the Smith machine is for you!
Or maybe I'm just bitter because of the time wasted in that trap. I want that time back!
I saw a girl yesterday in the gym on the Smith machine doing squats. She loaded up about 15 pounds on each end, then had to ask a guy to move the bar down a couple of hooks because she couldn't do it (although, maybe she just wanted an excuse to talk to the guy!); then she proceeded to hold the bar on her C-spine, practically under her ears, with most of the weight on her hands, bent her head way back and looked at the ceiling, and did her "squats."
I was cringing, hoping I'd be done before she killed herself that way.
Cycomiko, what do you feel are the overwhelming benefits of the Smith Machine. I personally prefer the barbell, but I'm interested in what you have to say.
The Evil Smith Machine...
I was considering hiring him for a few sessions until I saw this. Does this mean he is a bad trainer? Does he even know what he is doing? Based on the other exercises he has his clients do, I thought he was pretty creative but my jaw dropped when I saw her on the Smith Machine...
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