I'm half-way through Stage 1 and I'm not sure I'm doing these right.
I'm confused about hand and elbow placement. In the book it says something like "keep your elbows in close to your ribs, don't let them flare out", but in the picture it looks like she's got her hands pointed somewhat inward which is naturally going to cause the elbows to flare out somewhat. It's hard to tell how close her elbows are b/c the pics are all taken from the side.
I've been trying to do them with my elbows really close to my body, like rows, but now that I'm into the lower reps I'm doing a harder version, and I'm feeling the exercise mostly in my triceps and hardly at all in my chest.
So my question is -- how do I set about positioning myself correctly, and if I'm positioned correctly, which muscles should feel like they're doing the most work?
Well, I'm not actually sagging through the body because I'm already using a modified version that allows me a full range of motion while keeping my ab/back muscles tight (against a low counter). The trouble I'm having is with hand/arm placement -- I'm realizing that I can make the exercise much easier by keeping my hands and/or elbows wide -- but I'm transferring work to other muscles when I do this. I've been doing Pilates-style pushups (poorly) with the elbows very close to the body and frankly I'm not sure how a "standard" pushup differs in terms of form. *shrug*
I have been following the written instructions in the book and keeping my elbows right by my sides. Yes I feel them more in my arms than my chest this way.
I have been following the written instructions in the book and keeping my elbows right by my sides. Yes I feel them more in my arms than my chest this way.
Glad it's not just me -- I thought I might've been doing them wrong!
They are not easy, that's for sure. Even the modified ones.
Let's say we are all standing above you while you are on the floor in a push-up position. Basically, we can see only the back of your head, back of your arms, butt, and back of legs....
Let's say your head is a 12 o'clock position, and your arms (beginning at your arms pits are at 3 and 9 o'clock positions). This is the maximal position for the chest, because the upper attachment of the pectorals are lengthen, and in my opinion, in a precarious position. If you bring your arms closer in so that your elbows face the 4 and 8 o'clock positions--this would be optimal for shoulder health and great for help from the synergistic muscles. This is the best position. If you hold your arms closest to your sides (so the elbows face the 5 and 7 o'clock positions), that really relies more so on the triceps and front delts.
In the end, the chest does get some work. Where you feel "strongest" is what is important.
Let's say we are all standing above you while you are on the floor in a push-up position. Basically, we can see only the back of your head, back of your arms, butt, and back of legs....
Let's say your head is a 12 o'clock position, and your arms (beginning at your arms pits are at 3 and 9 o'clock positions). This is the maximal position for the chest, because the upper attachment of the pectorals are lengthen, and in my opinion, in a precarious position. If you bring your arms closer in so that your elbows face the 4 and 8 o'clock positions--this would be optimal for shoulder health and great for help from the synergistic muscles. This is the best position. If you hold your arms closest to your sides (so the elbows face the 5 and 7 o'clock positions), that really relies more so on the triceps and front delts.
In the end, the chest does get some work. Where you feel "strongest" is what is important.
Aha! Thank you so much! I think I get it now. This explains why I've seen so many different variations, also -- they're meant to target different muscles. Triceps and delts is indeed where I've been feeling them. So -- I guess I'm doing them right.
I've been doing Pilates-style pushups (poorly) with the elbows very close to the body and frankly I'm not sure how a "standard" pushup differs in terms of form. *shrug*
So, between the two, the push-ups called for in NRoLfW (at least in Stage 1 & 2 so far) are the Pilates-style, right? The second video (of Cathe Friedrich, my hero) shows the arms much wider. I can do those much easier than with the arms closer in with elbows closer to the body. I am making progress, though!
I've been doing them with elbows very close in but have often wondered about all the variations I see. I asked DH what the military considers a "legal" push-up and he says basically all they care about is that the upper arms get parallel to the floor.
yesterday when I was stretching there was a 30-something woman doing pushups with feet on a 55cm swiss ball. She was good. She did at least 10.
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I agree, rubyam. I can do the wider arm ones on the floor, but I'm lucky if I can do one of the arms-close kind on the floor. But, I'm here to challenge myself and improve. I definitely have room for improvement!
It very clearly says in the book that your elbows should be by your sides. That's how I have been doing them (and they're HARD that way!).
But if you look at the picture her elbows aren't all that close to her body. Certainly not out at right angles, but maybe 45 degrees or so? Which is confusing. But I think I've got it now -- if I leave my elbows in but move my hands slightly wider than shoulder width -- say, one hand width wider -- my form looks more like that of the model in the book. (Aside from her arms being really cut and my triceps being all flabby and whatnot )
Well, the pictures won't always be exactly what someone is describing or wants, mainly because they will only spend so long making the model do what they want, or the model may have issues and can't do certain things, or the model just does them their way…
Remember "close" isn't "next to."
Your arms don't HAVE to be right at your side, scraping your torso as you lower… they just need to be close, and certainly not with hands wider than shoulders, elbows flared out to 90deg, and only going down 3inches.
I've been doing them with elbows very close in but have often wondered about all the variations I see. I asked DH what the military considers a "legal" push-up and he says basically all they care about is that the upper arms get parallel to the floor.
yesterday when I was stretching there was a 30-something woman doing pushups with feet on a 55cm swiss ball. She was good. She did at least 10.
Huh. I had this idea there was a "military-style" pushup that was like standard form. Guess not.
Mind you I am basing this on nothing other than some movies I've seen where some new recruits are doing those wide-armed pushups in the mud, falling on their faces while some drill sgt yells at them and calls them "meatheads" and "dirtbags" or whatever.
Well, the pictures won't always be exactly what someone is describing or wants, mainly because they will only spend so long making the model do what they want, or the model may have issues and can't do certain things, or the model just does them their way…
It's the whole "myth of proper form" thing I guess? The book mentions something about that in the section about squatting but it probably applies equally to pushups, right? I'm hung up on form, but I mostly just want to make sure I'm feeling it where I'm supposed to be feeling it.
Pretty much. There's some "bad" ways, mainly for shoulder health purposes. But for the most part the "right" way is more about what you're trying to do than if it's wrong or right across the board. Similar to stepups. And that's not counting what the performer is capable of based on their limitations of injury, flexibility, mobility, strength, etc…
The list of things not to do would be along the lines of don't flare the arms too much (shoulder health), don't let your body get saggy/keep a rigid body (core strength), don't do on your knees (better to learn with a long body on an incline, you change the pivot point so that progression to "real" pushups are harder)…
But for NR purposes, you want the arms closeish to the body, it's a tougher pushup, but it ends up making you stronger. When you think about it, then it becomes easier to progress to diamonds or decline… So it's mainly about shooting for higher than the lowest bar.
... new recruits are doing those wide-armed pushups in the mud, falling on their faces while some drill sgt yells at them and calls them "meatheads" and "dirtbags" or whatever.
Mind you I am basing this on nothing other than some movies I've seen where some new recruits are doing those wide-armed pushups in the mud, falling on their faces while some drill sgt yells at them and calls them "meatheads" and "dirtbags" or whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingdogs
Don't forget "ladies" and "little girls"
As one of the few women in our karate school (often the only one in class), our Sensei sometimes says something about "you hit like a girl" or "you kick like a girl" and I usually chime in with "they're THAT strong?!?!?"
Push ups -- correct form?
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