Just curious... since Alwyn says this is a "General Fitness" program...
I stumbled across this on an old thread...
Alwyn Cosgrove, on his blog yesterday, called NROLW a "general fitness" book:
Quote: "For example - the New Rules of Lifting for Women is an overall "general fitness" book for women where we tried to explode some myths as regarding women and weight training.
But it's not a sports conditioning book - nor is it a fat loss program or a pure strength program. Although it will work reasonably well for these - it's definitely not designed purely for any of those goals.
I'd write a different program if the goal were primarily fat loss - or if the goal was to compete in a sport - a sports-specific program would be better. In other words - if I had to get someone as lean as possible, as fast as possible - I'd use a different program. And if I wanted to get someone stronger - I wouldn't use one of my fat loss programs."
I have two very distinct fitness goals:
1. Reduce body fat from 29-30% down to 24-25%
2. Increase lean muscle mass by 4-5 pounds
Since Alwyn doesn't see this plan as a "fat loss" plan per se, and he even states that there are much more effective ways to get lean than NROL4W, I guess my question is: What should I do?
Should I try to reduce the fat first (and risk losing some precious muscle too) and then try to add the muscle back on? Or should I just stick with this plan and hope it all evens out in the end? I have scrolled through hundreds of old threads on this site and have concluded that the overwhelming majority of people have NOT met the goals they are trying to achieve. So many people seem frustrated that while they are definitely getting stronger they are not seeing the kind of changes in their physique that they had hoped for.
I did just fine doing NROL4W on a caloric deficit; others have not. I lost about 30 lbs. and maintained my LBM. My thought is that it doesn't matter what exercise program you are on, if you want to lose fat, you have to concentrate your efforts in the kitchen, because that's where 90% of your success will be from.
I am new to this forum, and my response for this post will be my very first (yay!). I've been doing NROL4W for exactly one month now. I've been doing it on a slight calorie deficit, but I never let myself feel hungry so I am comfortable with my eating strategy. I started with the same goals that you have. At 5'3" I weighed an unnatractive 167 lb. a few weeks ago. I have already lost at least 12 lb. and I feel an extreme increase in strength (whether it be going up some stairs or helping someone lift a heavy box at work). I think I might've cut out more carbs than the book suggests. I haven't been counting carbs/protein/fat/calories like I'm suppossed to but I'm making generally healthier choices, including no more drinking. I'm relying on Balance Bars as a snack once a day.
I feel that the weight loss has just been a jump start (i totally changed my diet around for this program... I used to eat muffins and bagels and Panera every day ) and that it will taper off, and maybe even increase in the next few weeks. My point is, if you follow this book then you'll probably be able to accomplish both of your goals without feeling like you have to lose the fat FIRST and then rebuild muscle later. I agree with Jane 100% that the fat loss depends on the food.
Thanks for the replies so far. Swimgirl and Jane, your results sound great! I totally agree with all of your thoughts on eating clean, and I guess that's the part that has me so frustrated -- I already eat REALLY clean and I'm just not seeing the fat go away. I think I am just a textbook case of a woman turning 40 and her hormones going a little wacky, thus a new accumulation of belly fat!
In the past I could drop 5 pounds with no effort, but since turning 40 it is an all-out war and the scale barely moves. I'm going to try to eat between 1500-1600 and see what happens this week. Then I'll adjust up or down accordingly (don't think I'll be going up!) Last year my doctor put me on hormones for 3 months and I melted off about 10 pounds of fat. Sadly, after going off the hormones I have steadily put those 10 pounds back on at the rate of about a pound a month.
Glad to hear how much success you've had on the program. I have no intentions of stopping NROL4W -- I love this lifting program and really look forward to doing it. I just need to figure out the "magic number" for my calorie intake.
When I first started the program I was alarmed to find I gained 2 pounds (I'm small, so it's a big difference) and my pants were getting tighter. I just lowered my calorie intake and I've since lost the two pounds and am now down to my baseline. But the great thing is that, after doing the first stage, I noticed my body looks and feels better (I seem to have lost the extra fat on my back!. My Tanita scale says I've lost 2% body fat (on a consistent basis), so I have no complaints in terms of "losing weight" or not "losing weight" -- I fluctuate around a baseline. My point is that once you do find that right calorie amount for you, and you do the program, you will just start to feel better physically, and the extra fat will probably also fall away. If you do a calorie deficit, see how it feels and how much energy you have. Even with a deficit, I feel fine, I think, because I'm eating more protein and fat than I used to. Good luck!
Thanks for the replies so far. Swimgirl and Jane, your results sound great! I totally agree with all of your thoughts on eating clean, and I guess that's the part that has me so frustrated -- I already eat REALLY clean and I'm just not seeing the fat go away. I think I am just a textbook case of a woman turning 40 and her hormones going a little wacky, thus a new accumulation of belly fat!
In the past I could drop 5 pounds with no effort, but since turning 40 it is an all-out war and the scale barely moves. I'm going to try to eat between 1500-1600 and see what happens this week. Then I'll adjust up or down accordingly (don't think I'll be going up!) Last year my doctor put me on hormones for 3 months and I melted off about 10 pounds of fat. Sadly, after going off the hormones I have steadily put those 10 pounds back on at the rate of about a pound a month.
Glad to hear how much success you've had on the program. I have no intentions of stopping NROL4W -- I love this lifting program and really look forward to doing it. I just need to figure out the "magic number" for my calorie intake.
I turned 40 this year and also really have a much harder time losing now than ever before. What hormones did they give you that helped you lose weight?
With much trial and error over the last year I have found that to lose now I have to eat about 1200 calories. I think NRLW is a great book but I think they over-exaggerate the risk of losing LBM while dieting. Sure it can happen but if you diet smartly (eating enough protein, some lifting, no excessive cardio) you can maintain your LBM. I also learned I can't do NRLW on anything less than 1600 calories and at that calorie level doing the workouts (plus 2-3 days of spinning or running) I did not lose more than 2-3 lbs and that was all in the first month. I did see some body and strength improvements over the 4 months I did the program but the fat really wasn't budging in any significant way. I started with about 8-10 lbs to lose. I think people with more to lose have better luck doing the program on a deficit.
I suggest taking a look at Leigh's OPT program, lots of info on the Fatloss troubleshoot board. There are several people doing it who used to do NRLW but were not losing fat on it (and not able to do it in deficit) Lose the fat you want while keeping the muscle you have, then when you get to goal work on building those 4-5 lbs of LBM. My two cents.
I read somewhere (dont' think it was NR) that you have more muscle when you're bigger anyway...you need more muscle to move your larger body. So you can lose some muscle as you lose fat and still have an appropriate amount of muscle for your size.
I don't know, I think we maybe obsess too much over the whole "lose muscle while losing fat" thing, especially if we're using those muscles on a regular, challenging, basis. Or maybe it's more of a concern to people who are more interested in muscle mass than I am. I just wanna do some decent push ups, DL my body weight, hold some cool yoga poses, and climb multiple staircases without getting winded (got that one down!)
I turned 40 this year and also really have a much harder time losing now than ever before. What hormones did they give you that helped you lose weight?
Lara,
My doctor put me on bio-identical estrogen and progesterone because I was having constant hot flashes and had gained almost 10 pounds VERY quickly (I gained it all in a month and I'm someone who has never had a weight problem). After running a bunch of labs, thyroid panels and checking hormone levels, he concluded that it was perimenopause. His first suggestion was to go on the p*ll, but since I have never tolerated that well he put me on the bio-identicals short term to try to alleviate the symptoms -- worked like a charm! Hot flashes stopped and I lost the weight easily.
Truth be told, I would love to go back on the hormones to drop this weight but this time around the weight gain was my own fault. I gained about a pound a month due to the sheer laziness of slacking-off on exercising and eating little bits of junk here and there. The hormones did give me weird headaches so I really wouldn't want to go back on them just for my own vanity!
For me, it's all about daily cardio. I know the current school of thought is that steady-state cardio is the least effective method for burning fat, eats away at muscle gain, leads to skinny-fat, etc., However, for ME, it's as simple as this: if I walk daily, I don't gain weight. When I stop walking, I gain weight! Walking may not be the most efficient way to get in shape, but it accomplishes so many objectives for me at once: I get outdoors in the fresh air, get to soak up some sunshine to convert to Vitamin D, have a chance to clear my head, enjoy nature, pray, meditate, listen to music, whatever! I'm still a huge believer in strength training and HIIT, but nothing takes the place of a nice brisk walk.
Thanks for the suggestion for Leigh's OPT program. I'll check it out.
My doctor put me on bio-identical estrogen and progesterone because I was having constant hot flashes and had gained almost 10 pounds VERY quickly (I gained it all in a month and I'm someone who has never had a weight problem). After running a bunch of labs, thyroid panels and checking hormone levels, he concluded that it was perimenopause. His first suggestion was to go on the p*ll, but since I have never tolerated that well he put me on the bio-identicals short term to try to alleviate the symptoms -- worked like a charm! Hot flashes stopped and I lost the weight easily.
Truth be told, I would love to go back on the hormones to drop this weight but this time around the weight gain was my own fault. I gained about a pound a month due to the sheer laziness of slacking-off on exercising and eating little bits of junk here and there. The hormones did give me weird headaches so I really wouldn't want to go back on them just for my own vanity!
For me, it's all about daily cardio. I know the current school of thought is that steady-state cardio is the least effective method for burning fat, eats away at muscle gain, leads to skinny-fat, etc., However, for ME, it's as simple as this: if I walk daily, I don't gain weight. When I stop walking, I gain weight! Walking may not be the most efficient way to get in shape, but it accomplishes so many objectives for me at once: I get outdoors in the fresh air, get to soak up some sunshine to convert to Vitamin D, have a chance to clear my head, enjoy nature, pray, meditate, listen to music, whatever! I'm still a huge believer in strength training and HIIT, but nothing takes the place of a nice brisk walk.
Thanks for the suggestion for Leigh's OPT program. I'll check it out.
Interesting, I gained quite a bit of weight in a short amount of time for no reason. I am on thyroid meds for many years but they also found out I had high cortisol levels. This led to some frantic attempts to lose which then resulted in binges (the diet/binge cycle ugh...) leading to further gain. I was on the Pill for many years and went off in December and still no period and while I know that can be normal, I am wondering if there is some estrogen/progesteron issue as well and/or peri-menopause. My doc wants to wait a bit before he tests for those.
I think daily walking is great. Any movement beyond our daily life activities can only be postive. There is much talk on the Fat Loss Troublehsoot board about the importance of just moving more and that just extra movement (not workouts per se) combined with diet is most effective way to lose fat for many people. Not everyone can do HIIT and heavy lifting and lose weight. The potential for burn out is very high. I think the backlash against steady-state is sort of ending, more and more even the folks that were so against it seem to be saying that for many people it is a good way to burn calories/fat/lose weight.
Just curious... since Alwyn says this is a "General Fitness" program...
) and that it will taper off, and maybe even increase in the next few weeks. My point is, if you follow this book then you'll probably be able to accomplish both of your goals without feeling like you have to lose the fat FIRST and then rebuild muscle later. I agree with Jane 100% that the fat loss depends on the food.
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