I posted my first post here in the original book section without realizing that I should have been asking questions here. I just got the book yesterday and am a bit confused about a couple of things.
Currently, I am 6' 1" in height, weigh 267 pounds, and a 33 year old female. I started changing my lifestyle in July and lost 23 pounds, but got stuck in a plateau 3 weeks ago and haven't lost but one pound within the last 3 weeks. So, I lowered my calorie intake from between 1800 - 2200 to between 1600 - 1900 with hopes that I would break it. See, I had thought that I was overestimating the amount of calories I was burning during my exercise. I was doing 25 minutes of walking/jogging intervals in the mornings, 40 minutes of Tae Bo cardio in the afternoons, and around 30 minutes of strength training 3 times per week. This would equate to between 65 minutes - 95 minutes total for exercise on a given day depending on if it was a strength training day or not. I would workout 6 days per week and rest one. In an attempt to break this plateau, as I said earlier, I lowered my calorie intake. I also lowered my exercise a bit by knocking off the walking/jogging intervals. Not to mention the fact that I felt as if I were pushing myself way too hard, especially on my strength training days. Now, I only do 40 minutes of Tae Bo cardio 6 days a week and 3 days of strength training. Please note that this was before I got the book. I haven't started using it yet because I just finished reading it last night.
My apologies for being so long winded. However, I thought you all may need some background information for these questions.
The book recommends that I calculate my maintenance calories and eat at that level for four weeks before attempting to cut calories. Currently, I'm eating around 1600 per day. If I raise my intake to 2499 on sedentary days and 2832 on workout days without easing into it slowly, will that effect me in a negative manner? It also suggests that if I feel I must cut calories, not to go below a 300 calorie daily deficit. Obviously, this means that if I do lose weight, it will be at a very very slow rate. Currently, I need to lose 87 more pounds in order to get to my first goal of 180 pounds. After I get to that weight, I'll see how it looks on me before deciding to stay at that weight or shoot for a lower weight. I don't mind losing at a slow rate as long as it's, at least, a 1 pound per week loss. I have a LOT of weight to lose. I started at 290, which makes my total weight loss goal minus 110 pounds. I worry that I'll never get there if I don't cut a little more? Before I hit this 3 week plateau, I was losing between 2 - 2.75 pounds per week. Now, I'm at a 0.25 - 0.75 loss per week. If I increase my calories even more, will I -ever- get this weight off? I guess I'm just a little worried. I was so proud of myself for actually losing weight. I've always been overweight and a loss like this is making me finally realize that I can be normal.
Of course, I don't want to be skinny/fat. I'd love to be able to see visible muscle in my legs, arms, shoulders, back, etc. I tend to be the opposite of those women who fear bulking up. I want to be a bit bulky instead of petite, even though I now know that my body simply isn't capable of gaining a lot of muscle! The thought of being strong is very appealing to me.
Sheesh, what a long winded post just to ask a couple questions. Sorry about that. And I also wanted to say I simply loved the book. It is very informative and well-written.
I am by no means an expert here. I'll tell you what I did. I calculated my maintenance calories for my *current* weight and my maintenance calories for my *goal* weight (maybe for you, it would be your first goal) and I split the difference. For me that meant a calorie deficit of a little over 400 a day. I also DRASTICALLY increased my protein intake - slightly more that doubling it to between 110-140g per day.
When I started the program I was 190lbs (down from 240) and I'm currently at 160lbs. My goal is 130lbs.
It's not what the book recommends, so please don't take my word as gospel. But it worked for me and I never felt hungry, or deprived or weak after a workout.
I do believe that increasing my protein was a huge part of my success in eating reduced calories and feeling ok.
I'm not an expert, but this is what I have learned from reading a lot of information and experience here. New Rules is a difficult and intense program. It's possible to do it at a calorie deficit, but many people simply cannot. Since you have a lot of weight to lose, you would probably have an easier time cutting calories, but I would think somewhere around 2000 calories would be more appropriate than 1600. The other thing to realize is that New Rules is more of strength and building program than a fat loss program. So you could do this, lose weight slowly, build strength, and then after this, move to a fat loss program to lose more rapidly while doing a less taxing workout.
Thank you for the responses. Do you think I should just hold onto the book and continue on the program I'm currently on, lose most or all of the weight I should lose (which will take around a year or so, maybe two), THEN start the program to build muscle? I know I should do -some- kind of resistance training in order to maintain as much muscle mass as possible while all this fat is being burned off. Since this is an intense program and is centered around building muscle/cutting what looks to be no more than 10 to 20 pounds of fat, I think I may have jumped the gun a little bit in buying it too early. I tend to do that. I'm an all or nothing type person. When I started working out, I pushed myself too hard in an effort to get all this mess gone.
Has anyone followed this program, including the workouts and diet information, while losing a substantial amount of weight? Don't get me wrong, it looks to be a wonderful program and I'm not knocking it by any means. I just would like to know if it is for me at this point in time or if I should simply wait until I have most of this fat gone.
I did. I followed low-carb and did NROL4W and lost about 20 lbs. (January - June) Still losing, but have transitioned into Power Training and have added some carbs back into my diet.
lose most or all of the weight I should lose (which will take around a year or so, maybe two), THEN start the program to build muscle?
NO!!!!!!!!
Most resoundingly, no. That's a mistake that so many people make and it's one that's made because you're simply not thinking clearly.
You are better off building muscle first. Muscle is metabolically active, fat is not. If you build muscle now, you increase your ability to burn calories and therefore burn fat. Why would you wait a year or two to make the changes in your body that will allow you to burn fat more efficiently? See, that just isn't sensible from any way you look at it.
You *will* lose weight on this program if you start off overweight, even though it's not a weight loss program per-se. If you build muscle, you will lose weight. The thing is you have to stop focusing on losing weight - and especially on losing weight FAST - and focus on a more holistic plan for good health.
I'm from the other mindset. While I WAS able to do NROL4W on a calorie deficit (some aren't), my main goal was to lose fat and MAINTAIN LBM. So, I continue to lift and maintain (probably gained a bit of LBM in the process). But, I want to get the fat off first. THEN, I will begin a slow bulk and begin to gain again. Rinse, lather, repeat.
#1 goal for me is to get the fat off. Plenty of time for muscle gains later.
I started at a much higher weight than you are and am quite a bit shorter. I started already having lost some weight, and continue to do so using a different program. However, during my time on NROL4W I lost just a bit over 50lbs, so it is possible. Some people find that they cannot control their food intake and/or lift in a deficit, so your mileage may vary.
I made a post when I hit the 50 lbs lost mark, and at the start of it I went over what the book suggested, and where I started. You can find that information here:
#1 goal for me is to get the fat off. Plenty of time for muscle gains later.
I really really really think this is a BAD mindset. Why would you want to be skinny and out of shape?
When you build muscle, you are increasing your metabolism and making it easier to lose weight. If you lose weight w/out building muscle, then you're losing lean muscle WHILE you're losing fat because your body will burn muscle and fat at the same time.
It's a very unhealthy mindset, IMO.
The most healthy way to lose weight is to do so while building or at least maintaining lean muscle.
I started at a much higher weight than you are and am quite a bit shorter. I started already having lost some weight, and continue to do so using a different program. However, during my time on NROL4W I lost just a bit over 50lbs, so it is possible. Some people find that they cannot control their food intake and/or lift in a deficit, so your mileage may vary.
I made a post when I hit the 50 lbs lost mark, and at the start of it I went over what the book suggested, and where I started. You can find that information here:
Oh, and welcome, and good luck (no matter what you decide).
Oh, how perfect! Congratulations, you must have worked your behind off. This is exactly what I wanted to read. I love lifting as well. I'm not sure why, but doing nothing but cardio is really burning me out fast. I'm beginning to hate it even though I know that it can be good for you. This is why I wanted to focus more so on lifting and add a bit of cardio for heart health and to help create a calorie deficit.
I think I'm just going to do what the book recommends in terms of eating at maintenance for the first month and see what happens. Then, I can create a deficit based on the information I get from that month. I know that my usual -1000 to -1200 calorie deficit just isn't going to cut it. I'll likely have to take that number down to -500 or less. Heck, this might be why I've hit a plateau. I could be eating too FEW calories to fuel all this working out I've been doing. Perhaps, a good week to a month of maintenance and a bit of playing around with calorie intake would do me some good.
I really really really think this is a BAD mindset. Why would you want to be skinny and out of shape?
When you build muscle, you are increasing your metabolism and making it easier to lose weight. If you lose weight w/out building muscle, then you're losing lean muscle WHILE you're losing fat because your body will burn muscle and fat at the same time.
Where did you get this information????
It's a very unhealthy mindset, IMO.
The most healthy way to lose weight is to do so while building or at least maintaining lean muscle.
Which is exactly what I said I did.
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I guess everyone has their own opinion, but I really don't think my pics show "skinny and out of shape".
Please be assurred that I lost all of my fat (30 lbs so far) in a very healthy manner. And, I did NROL4W and now Power Training all throughout my journey and have made tremendous gains.
I think the first part of your post is fine. It's the "plenty of time to gain muscle later" that is misleading.
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No, it absolutely is not. I have lost fat, maintained LBM, and in a couple of weeks will begin my slow bulk. Which is exactly what I said. No mixed messages there.
I think the first part of your post is fine. It's the "plenty of time to gain muscle later" that is misleading.
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I think what she is referring to is the significant muscle gains that require a bulking phase. She just didnt want to gain fat on top of fat, b/c when you bulk you gain muscle AND fat.
actually photochick, there IS plenty of time to gain muscle later. In particular, for women who start out at 30 percent body fat or greater, sometimes the best goal really is to MAINTAIN muscle mass. some women who are significantly obese actually WILL lose lean body tissue when they are in a calorie deficit, because some of the connective tissue, arteries, veins and other support tissues that support the fat are no longer required as you lose fat.
the posters question was about continuing her current program, which is 30 min three times a week of strength training plus walking/jogging/tae bo or switch to NROLW. with her current program, she most certainly could maintain her lean body mass and drop fat. if she is overweight and relatively new to strength training, she could even build lean and drop fat. but at 6' 1" and 267, she possibly could be rocking some serious, awesome lean body mass already, in which case, some lean body mass might actually go away as she loses body fat.
the reason? let's say her optimal weight range is 180-185. her body at 185 does not need the same lean body mass that her body at 267 requires to carry around extra weight.
do check out jane's log--her focus definitely was fat loss, but she continued significant strength training combined with optimal protein intake throughout her deficit. the result --she is definitely not "skinny fat". "skinny fat" happens when you do stupid shit, like severe dieting with no training, or severe dieting with mega cardio.
and one of the main take home points about fat loss--it happens in the kitchen. yes, working out is important, yes you should strength train. but building a leaner body requires laser focused nutrition.
I'm from the other mindset. While I WAS able to do NROL4W on a calorie deficit (some aren't), my main goal was to lose fat and MAINTAIN LBM. So, I continue to lift and maintain (probably gained a bit of LBM in the process). But, I want to get the fat off first. THEN, I will begin a slow bulk and begin to gain again. Rinse, lather, repeat.
#1 goal for me is to get the fat off. Plenty of time for muscle gains later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by photochick
I really really really think this is a BAD mindset. Why would you want to be skinny and out of shape?
When you build muscle, you are increasing your metabolism and making it easier to lose weight. If you lose weight w/out building muscle, then you're losing lean muscle WHILE you're losing fat because your body will burn muscle and fat at the same time.
It's a very unhealthy mindset, IMO.
The most healthy way to lose weight is to do so while building or at least maintaining lean muscle.
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What is so unhealthy about lifting weights in a deficit? Jane never said she wanted to be "skinny" and "out of shape" that could actually not be farther from the truth. She clearly states that she did NROL4W on a deficit. And she did say she was maintaining lean muscle?
What is unhealthy about this, exactly?
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Ginger
"The miracle isn't that I finished. The miracle is that I had the courage to start." ~ John Bingham
I love lifting as well. I'm not sure why, but doing nothing but cardio is really burning me out fast. I'm beginning to hate it even though I know that it can be good for you.
I'll likely have to take that number down to -500 or less. Heck, this might be why I've hit a plateau. I could be eating too FEW calories to fuel all this working out I've been doing. Perhaps, a good week to a month of maintenance and a bit of playing around with calorie intake would do me some good.
I like lifting too, that's why I'd rather do it and cut back on the cardio. I should note that what I call cardio is usually walking, with a little jogging for a minute at a time. Although enough so it puts my avg heart rate in the 70-80% range.
Depending on what kind of strength training you've been doing I think you'll transition over fine with a small deficit. And how nice to drop some of the cardio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fengshway
actually photochick, there IS plenty of time to gain muscle later. In particular, for women who start out at 30 percent body fat or greater, sometimes the best goal really is to MAINTAIN muscle mass. some women who are significantly obese actually WILL lose lean body tissue when they are in a calorie deficit, because some of the connective tissue, arteries, veins and other support tissues that support the fat are no longer required as you lose fat.
Since I only count monthly averages from my bf scale, I can say that I've lost 3.5 lbs of LBM in the past four months, but I'm quite happy with that. Mainly because my current number for LBM (132.8) is higher than I'd like to end up at.
exactly anne. I think it is great to get the message out that women should lift, that lean body mass is good, that skinny fat is bad, and so on. but in my case, at 228 pounds, I had plenty of lean muscle. it would have been very bad advice to tell me to focus on building muscle first--even competitive body building women who are 5 " 6.5" and single digit body fat don't weigh 228, lol! I am thrilled that the whole "don't worry about scale weight, worry about fat loss" message is getting out there to women. but when you weigh 228, guess what, scale weight really does have to go down too--and sometimes you lose lean body mass. it is ok, there IS time to gain it later!!
Nutrition, Calorie Intake Confusion
But it worked for me and I never felt hungry, or deprived or weak after a workout. 
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