My girlfriend and I joined a local gym today that we had tried out earlier this week since it's not very crowded and you can't beat the price ($350/year), and even has multiple squat racks. The owner is a really nice guy, and I enjoyed talking with him when we got the initial tour. The membership also comes with 2 free personal training sessions, which I personally declined, but suggested to my girlfriend that she might want to use one or both of them to help her with learning the squat and deadlift since she is going to be starting NROL4W within the next couple weeks; I've been showing her the motions (with bodyweight) and she's felt it in her legs the next day. However, today the owner said to me "oh, I wouldn't have her do deadlifts or squats, you'll want her on the machines. I don't even have my male clients do them for a while. I give our trainers a set program that I told them to stick to." This pretty much told me that what I'm paying for is a great deal for the gym, but perhaps we'll stick to doing our own thing. I agree with part of what he had said in terms of preventing injury, since he did refer to lower back, but this is why my girlfriend hasn't been using any weight while she learns the forms (form before weight, always).
Anyone else had simliar reactions? I'm posting this in the NROL4W forum for this reason. Maybe I should have the owner read the chapter "Why A Woman Should Lift Like A Man" Just thought I'd share this since I'm positive this isn't an isolated case (much like curling in the squat rack is universal).
I do my lifting at home, however, I've definitely heard some of the women here talk about that kind of thing. I suspect you'll be better off doing your own thing. The good thing is that if they train everyone without using the squat racks... they should be free!
Yea....don't pay attention to the owner. Teaching a proper squat is useful if she does have any back problems....just use caution with the weight progressions. It's good that your gf even wants to learn these exercises....I would love to have a client like that. I remember having a conversation with a guy about squatting and why he prefered the leg press because it was safer for his back. He then proceeded to do leg presses allowing his knees to go to his chest and rounding his lower back with 180lbs of weight coming down....geez.
It's odd that you mention that, but a few years ago I worked in a manufacturing plant where I had access to a gym. Their new purchase was a shiny leg press. I never could get used to it - always hurt my back.
Well...if you go too deep on a leg press, it can aggravate your back. People like it because it's easy and achieve a faster progression with weights. Those are the people that look like a mess when I ask them to show me a squat or pick up a box from the floor.
I don't see why she couldn't start with free weights.... Unless she has a history of back problems, it shouldn't be a problem (and, depending on the back problem, might not be an issue anyway), as long as you teach her proper form.
It's funny, though...my gym owner does the same thing. When we get a new client, the first program she writes for them is a circuit of weight-stack machines. I think she feels it's best to "develop a basic level of strength." But, as I'm sure most here would agree, machines can actually HINDER the development of INTEGRATED strength. And they do nothing to develop balance....
Well, since she's the owner, I don't argue. But as soon as the initial break-in program is over, if it's MY turn to work with the client (some float between us, some prefer one of us over the other), I write a mostly-free weight/bodyweight program.
I do think machines are helpful for some clients (mainly women, sad to say) who find free weights too intimidating. Sometimes they need the psychological boost of seeing success with the machines before they are ready to try free weights. (Remember, many of MY clients are older and are not as confident in their bodies and/or balance as younger clients tend to be...)
This is NOT the case with your girlfriend, however. Ignore the owner and do your own thing, I say.
- Jennifer
__________________
ACE-Certified Personal Trainer Since 2002
Lifetime Member of WeightWatchers
The plan has definitely been to ignore the owner from the start; my girlfriend even told me that while the owner was telling me all these things, she was thinking "please stop saying all this because Matt (me) is already tearing apart what you're saying and is just nodding his head and smiling at you"
I appreciate getting feedback from people, not just for me but for my girlfriend as well, since it's always helpful to have further support that you're taking the right approach. We have been using very little weight with squats and deadlifts (light dumbbells just to work on general balance and form). She has tried a couple reps with the bar while within a power cage, just to start to get comfortable with it, but we're definitely taking our time on this. I've had enough lingering injuries over the years, let alone recently, to not want to see her get injured too.
good approach!!!.....hopefully everything works out well for your two. It would be better to have a qualified trainer there giving correct cues, but you two are on the right track.
I just wanted to add...my gym owner does the same thing...and I think there is a business reason for it, I cant remember what exactly. But I think it has something to do with utiziling the machines and space more effectively.....but I definitely think they have a hidden agenda behind it.
I've had trainers tell me the same thing (I go to one of those chain gyms - but at least the one I go to has a decent weight area).
In fact a few weeks ago I was doing deadlifts and afterward, I had a trainer come tell me that I shouldn't be doing them because I was a girl. Not that my form needed work, but that women shouldn't do deadlifts.
I just looked at him deadpan and said "oh really"? And walked off.
I had a trainer come tell me that I shouldn't be doing them because I was a girl. Not that my form needed work, but that women shouldn't do deadlifts.
I just looked at him deadpan and said "oh really"? And walked off.
Soooo frustrating.
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Oh REALLY? What does hauling all those children, groceries, sports gear, coolers full of drink for the soccer/T-ball/Beach/Camping trips require? Yup. Deadlifts. And Farmer Walks. (I often carry multiple bags of groceries in each hand when moving them from my car to my kitchen - probably 60-70lbs worth each trip). Don't even get me started on carrying those bleepin' infant carseats around (thankfully I'm past that stage)... And let's not forget Step-Ups. I can't even begin to count the number of trips I make up and down my stairs with heavy baskets of laundry each week...
Maybe in OUR country, most women don't do the hard field work and carry buckets of water in yokes on our shoulders (except for maybe migrant workers and the few family farmers out there), but many of us - probably the majority of the workers in the healthcare field - routinely do the hard work of caring for invalids. I'm thinking here of home health aides and nurses who have to care for, and often lift people into/out of beds and chairs.
I just can't fathom how anyone would say such an incredibly ignorant thing in this day and age. You tell this idiot to come live my life for day and see whether deadlifts, farmer walks, and step-ups (among others) don't have their place....
- Jennifer
__________________
ACE-Certified Personal Trainer Since 2002
Lifetime Member of WeightWatchers
That just made me think. My gf never works out and pretty much scoffs at the idea...sigh. She would consider shopping in the mall as her stress relief and exercise. I should just make her carry all her shopping bags as a farmer's walk. I've always been a gentleman and never let a woman carry her bags or lift something semi-heavy off the floor, but I guess should start implementing that.
I just can't fathom how anyone would say such an incredibly ignorant thing in this day and age. You tell this idiot to come live my life for day and see whether deadlifts, farmer walks, and step-ups (among others) don't have their place....
Oh totally. As you can probably tell from my user id, I'm a photographer. I carry a 50+lb bag of gear around with me all the time. When I'm shooting a wedding or a portrait session, I carry a camera that (with lens and flash) can weigh upwards of 15 lbs. Imagine walking around carrying a 15lb barbell in your hands for 9.5 hours a day, lifting it, holding it, raising it above your head, back down, etc.
During the course of shooting, I stand, squat, climb, lie down, move things, lug my bag, etc. I often have to run in short bursts from one area to another.
And this yahoo is telling me I shouldn't deadlift cause I'm a frickin' GIRL?
I would probably get my post censored for saying whta I really wanted to say to him.
I would probably get my post censored for saying whta I really wanted to say to him.
.
The thing is, when someone says something that appallingly stupid to me, it renders me speechless on the spot. It's only AFTER the fact that I think of the appropriate (or inappropriate!) thing to say!
- J
__________________
ACE-Certified Personal Trainer Since 2002
Lifetime Member of WeightWatchers
I just wanted to chime in and agree with everyone who said ignore the trainers and have her do her own thing. I go to a chain gym that is cheap but actually has a good free weight area, but the trainers are tools. I have gotten the "be careful!!" type comments and some very strange looks while doing snatches and deads, but it's all good...because then I get to roll my eyes while the "trainers" have their clients doing half squats in the smith machine and curls on the bosu. Oh and the other day...one had a very overweight client doing plyo jumps onto a weight bench....she almost faceplanted....niiiiiiiice.
p.s. and yes, have her learn proper form, but don't let her be afraid of the "big girl" weights....she is probably stronger than she thinks!
I have to say it was quite scary seeing a gym owner (for 15+ years) cringe at the idea that I was planning on doing deadlifts and squats. If it wasnt for my boyfriend, Matt, having a good understanding for the program and all the benefits it offers, I would have listened to the man and followed the typical training routine. Machines, cardio routine and all. I am planning on starting the NROL4W on Monday and really feel that this forum managed to overwrite what our new gym owner said about weight lifting. Particularly, the women's responses to the benefits of the program and how many other trainers have discouraged weight training.
Its amazing isn't it! At my gym there are very few women using the free weights area. Even the men rarely do squats or deadlifts.
Though the other day, this small rather fit looking woman, came in an proceeded to knock out quite a few sets of perfect squats with about 160lbs - I was terribly impressed - I haven't seen her there again though.
I remember speaking to some trainer during my off time and he pointed to this older lady. He said that she's really strong and can squat 205lbs. I was actually impressed until I saw her squat a different day.....went more than a quarter, but no way near parallel (typical quad dominant squat). The saddest part is that she uses a trainer as well...sigh. I give her credit for at least attempting to squat.
I'm in agreement with everybody here...especially the bit about women having to lug around children, equipment, and groceries...so why are weights any different? Maybe it's, in part, about territory or something. At my gym, I do see a handful of guys really, seriously focusing on their lifting...complete with the sweat and noises and guy talk. I 'get' that, in a way, it's their guy-time, but it's not going to stop me from lifting...I sweat and make funny noises, just the same (just don't partake in the guy talk, lol.) Maybe if there were pink weights in another corner - just for women - so we could be all segregated (*cringes*), things would be better. Or maybe it's pack mentality. Maybe if women who are serious about lifting - if they were to hit the gym in pairs and/or groups, it'd even things out. I dunno. All I know is that I will die before I get on the elliptical. Thing makes no sense to me. :P
Where are all you females at the gyms I work at? All I ever encounter are cardio bunnies....sigh.
As evidenced by this thread, many women don't know about the benefits of doing resistance training, or the full lifts. My girlfriend was recently in this boat, and in fact would mainly focus on running and was wondering why she didn't see results until I pointed her to a few articles on linked on the forums (such as Rachael Cosgrove's article on her own experiences with cardio vs. interval training).
I guess the moral of the story is that you should go up to these cardio bunnies and show them the light
Maybe you don't see women doing the compound lifts because no one ever bothered to TEACH them, because, after all, women AREN'T SUPPOSED to do them...blah blah blah.
My older clients certainly came of age before, or just at the beginning of Title IX, and even then, weight-training wasn't done with girls/young women. My sister, who played high-school field hockey in the 70s, had a forward-thinking coach who DID put the team in the weight-room, but this was rare among coaches then, even for men's team sports...
Anyhoo...what I'd REALLY like to see is a nationally-promoted program in the schools (I am a teacher) to teach ALL kids - at least starting in middle school - how to lift weights properly.
Peak bone mass accumulation happens from ages 12-20, and it's critically important,especially for girls, to build that bone-mass BEFORE the pubertal growth spurt begins. (After that, weight-training doesn't significant increase bone - mass - though it CAN help DECREASE rate of bone LOSS...) We're talking MIDDLE SCHOOL (and late 5th/6th grade here).
Moreover, the specific exercises that seem to promote bone mass accumulation are those that generate high-g forces - like depth jumps and box jumps. These are easily (and entertainly) incorporated into obstacle-course type classes. AND...the kids ONLY need to do a few sets a week to see results.
My point is this: many grown women (especially the over 40 set) weren't exposed to weight-training at an early age, or if they were, were turned off by negative perceptions and feedback (deadlifts aren't for women, etc). We need to begin at a YOUNG age to encourage lifting for OVERALL health, so it becomes a way of life for our next generation....
OK, I've gotten WAY off topic from the OP, so I'll just end my rant here.
- J
__________________
ACE-Certified Personal Trainer Since 2002
Lifetime Member of WeightWatchers
I guess I'm lucky in that I had a trainer who trained me like he trained. I have been doing squats and deadlifts from the beginning with him. Squats all the way down too. That's one of the reasons for my starting NROL4W - I was already lifting heavy.
I've mentioned it in other threads, but I'm teaching a thai boxing boot camp this week. I will implement body weight exercises (squats, pushups, planks, etc.), so that'll be my way of showing them the light while doing something they already like (kickboxing). I'll teach them proper technique though, I hate that cardio kickboxing crap.
Gym Owner/Trainer Contradiction
Just thought I'd share this since I'm positive this isn't an isolated case (much like curling in the squat rack is universal).
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