Hi all - I am having trouble with the widegrip deadlift from box because of my grip strength. In Stage 1, I was deadlifting 95 lbs., but found I needed to adjust my grip and relieve the pressure a couple of times during the set. Now that I'm up higher, I can't do the same thing and by the end of the second set of 10 my legs were fine but my hands were in agony! I do appreciate the extra range of motion in this exercise, but I'm wondering whether anyone else had the same issue.
I have the same issue with grip strength when using the higher weights, which I think is quite common. I don't notice a difference with the deadlift from box vice the regular deadlifts, though. Are you using gloves? They help a lot with gripping the bar and minimizing the wear and tear on your hands. Also, while the book indicates using an overhand grip, I've always use a mixed grip (one overhand, the other underhand). I can lift more with the mixed grip, perhaps you would find it easier as well.
Most people won't be able to deadlift the same amount of weight with a wide grip that they can with a normal stance/width. So let yourself go down in weight to improve your grip strength and maintain your form for this exercise. You'll get back up there in no time.
I'd also strongly recommend against using gloves. They add a layer of movable fabric between the bar & your hand and increase the diameter of the bar. Plus, a major point of us doing weight training is to improve strength. Why not include grip strength as a part of that? Try using chalk, if your gym lets you. Try the mixed grip or the hook grip. And, again, try a slightly lower weight.
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"If 'toning' is the goal, strength is the method." ~ Mark Rippetoe
I'd also strongly recommend against using gloves. They add a layer of movable fabric between the bar & your hand and increase the diameter of the bar. Plus, a major point of us doing weight training is to improve strength. Why not include grip strength as a part of that?
Agree 100% that improving grip strength is key, but don't think gloves have a negative impact on this. They do not significantly increase the diameter of the bar (unlike those foam pads, for example), but do help eliminate that raw, hand-crushing sensation. Even with the gloves, it's my grip strength that is the weakest link. However, rather than my hands being in agony, it's my forearms that are on fire.
Most people won't be able to deadlift the same amount of weight with a wide grip that they can with a normal stance/width. So let yourself go down in weight to improve your grip strength and maintain your form for this exercise. You'll get back up there in no time.
I'd also strongly recommend against using gloves. They add a layer of movable fabric between the bar & your hand and increase the diameter of the bar. Plus, a major point of us doing weight training is to improve strength. Why not include grip strength as a part of that? Try using chalk, if your gym lets you. Try the mixed grip or the hook grip. And, again, try a slightly lower weight.
Now I'm wondering if the gloves aren't making things worse. My hands aren't very big and there is a fair amount of padding in the palm. Trying to avoid calluses but maybe that's a lost cause. And yes Jenny, I agree - it is my forearms as well as my hands. I think it was easier in Stage 1 because I would briefly let go of the bar to reposition my grip a couple of times during the set. Now in Stage 2, since I'm off the floor, that isn't really an option.
People poo-poo them on here but I use grips. I LOVE them and they allow me to push my hammies and back muscles. I am doing a dl in order to develop those muscles, not my grip strength, so why should I not get my targeted muscles with the most weight possible? Grip strength will gradually get better with my other db exercises. The DL is too important to me for its real purpose to screw around with grip giving out.
People poo-poo them on here but I use grips. I LOVE them and they allow me to push my hammies and back muscles. I am doing a dl in order to develop those muscles, not my grip strength, so why should I not get my targeted muscles with the most weight possible? Grip strength will gradually get better with my other db exercises. The DL is too important to me for its real purpose to screw around with grip giving out.
what kind of grips do you use? I saw a pair of Lynx grips or something like that which are like little silicon pads that fit inside your palm. Is this what you use?
Mark Rippetoe in his excellent book, Starting Strength, had some great things to say about deadlifts. He's dead set against gloves ("the glove is merely a pieces of loose stuff between the hand and the bar, reducing grip security and increasing the effective diameter of the bar"). Can't say I have personal experience with gloves, I'm just quoting the book there.
He does have a handy hint to help prevent really bad calluses...make sure that when you grip the bar, you grip the bar closer to the base of the fingers rather than in the middle of the palm of the hand. If you grip it in the middle of your palm, the bar just rolls towards the fingers anyways, taking your skin with it, making the calluses worse than they would be otherwise.
Right - what does he say, "put the bar where it's going to go, not where you THINK it should go"... something like that.
I'm starting stage 5 this week and have developed callouses. But you can't really tell they're there.
If you're holding the bar properly and not lifting like 400 pounds with a heavily-knurled bar, it's very likely you're not going to develop monstrously rough hands.
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"If 'toning' is the goal, strength is the method." ~ Mark Rippetoe
Thanks for the feedback. I'll try the exercise without the gloves and pay attention to how I'm holding the bar. Between gardening and lifting, my hands will be a mess but whatever...
what kind of grips do you use? I saw a pair of Lynx grips or something like that which are like little silicon pads that fit inside your palm. Is this what you use?
No I use the cheapy straps. Just wrap them around the bar and lift. I only use them for DL. I have developed the blisters and cuts and all the other fun from other lifts and am developing grip strength that way too. I just can't see the logic in not getting a good hamstring workout in if you are doing a DL just because your grip gives out. My hammies are good and sore today btw.
No I use the cheapy straps. Just wrap them around the bar and lift. I only use them for DL. I have developed the blisters and cuts and all the other fun from other lifts and am developing grip strength that way too. I just can't see the logic in not getting a good hamstring workout in if you are doing a DL just because your grip gives out. My hammies are good and sore today btw.
In hindsight, I think you've got a really good point. I was on Stage 4 workout 1B today and could not finish my last set of DL because I simply could no longer hold the bar, in spite of readjusting couple of times. My grip was so toasted it was even necessary to go lighter than I wanted to on my last set of lunges afterwards. Very frustrating!! I'm going to buy a set of straps before my next B workout.
I don't understand why improving grip isn't important, though. If you can't hold the weights for the duration of your set, doesn't that tell you that you need to work on developing strength? You wouldn't move up in the weight you could snatch if the dumbbell kept falling out of your hand, and you probably wouldn't strap the thing to your hand/wrist; I'm not sure why moving up in weight takes precedence over improving your ability to hold the weights you're lifting. Especially when grip strength has been demonstrated to be one of the only consistent indicators of improved longevity.
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"If 'toning' is the goal, strength is the method." ~ Mark Rippetoe
Agree that developing grip strength is important. However, like kfisherx, I think the "problem" is limited to DL, where I am lifting 155 lbs. Most of the dumbbells I am using are in the 30-40 range, so about half that. It's still tiring on the grip to hold on to a 40 lb dumbbell for a couple sets of lunges. Rows/pulldowns are another way of working grip with a relatively heavy weight.
I've always been in the minority (along with Karla) here - I use grips (I love my versa-grips). I do work on grip strength, and don't use them to help my grip with most moves, but for big pull moves, I'd rather focus on the muscles that should be working than have to stop due to grip problems. My grip-strength is improving, but I don't want it to limit deadlifts, etc etc...
What's great about versa-grips for me is that they can be used as a "glove" for pushing, as a "wrap" for pulling, or not used at all... but I can just keep them on and make that choice on a set-by-set basis...
Straps that are fastened around the wrists and then tied around the bar can effectively strengthen your grip, although using aids such as this stops your hands' strength from developing fully and naturally. Straps are often used when lifting barehanded because with bare hands it can sometimes be hard to hold onto a weight that really challenges your back during a heavy workout. As with gloves, champion power lifters do not use straps either, while lifting enormous weight. Lifting without straps will gradually strengthen your grip, but if you use straps continually your hands' strength will never develop to its fullest.
The fundamental idea here is that you're only DLing your body weight (thereabout), not 400 pounds. You should be able to develop strength to fully complete your workout. Grip is part of strength development, not something to be ignored. If your quads weren't strong enough to let you do full squats, you wouldn't decide to squat down on a chair to assist your workout. You'd lift lighter weight to get the full ROM. Similar concept applies.
I don't really want to get into an argument; I just don't think that you're getting the full benefits of the workouts by using straps with the weight you're lifting.
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"If 'toning' is the goal, strength is the method." ~ Mark Rippetoe
There have been several prior discussions regarding straps and it seems to be an area where there are two distinct sides. Sort of like Republicans and Democrats, it seems. I guess it's an area where we have to agree to disagree.
For the record, I am in the 'no straps or gloves' camp!
There have been several prior discussions regarding straps and it seems to be an area where there are two distinct sides. Sort of like Republicans and Democrats, it seems. I guess it's an area where we have to agree to disagree.
For the record, I am in the 'no straps or gloves' camp!
There is a difference between straps and gloves in that straps can serve a purpose if used judiciously and gloves serve no practical purpose (they may make weight training more comforatable but weight training is an odd hobby for someone who wants to be comforatable).
I think straps are fine for the heaviest deadlift sets, for example, but I would suggest that if someone is lunging with 40 lb dumbbells and cannot hold the dumbbells there are some serious strength imbalances that need to be addressed. A unilateral leg exercise is not going to be limited by grip strength under normal circumstances, not even close.
As for gloves, even if they did improve grip performance (rather than simply making the act of gripping a barbell more comforatable), which they don't, anyone who leaves them on to benchpress but still claims they are a grip aid is either lying to us or lying to themselves because I cannot fathom a benchpress being limited by grip strength (that would represent an astounding strength imbalance).
People poo-poo them on here but I use grips. I LOVE them and they allow me to push my hammies and back muscles. I am doing a dl in order to develop those muscles, not my grip strength, so why should I not get my targeted muscles with the most weight possible? Grip strength will gradually get better with my other db exercises. The DL is too important to me for its real purpose to screw around with grip giving out.
I use them, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfisherx
No I use the cheapy straps. Just wrap them around the bar and lift. I only use them for DL. I have developed the blisters and cuts and all the other fun from other lifts and am developing grip strength that way too. I just can't see the logic in not getting a good hamstring workout in if you are doing a DL just because your grip gives out. My hammies are good and sore today btw.
Mine are also cheapies. My brand is Harbinger and they were like $7.99 for the pair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenny
In hindsight, I think you've got a really good point. I was on Stage 4 workout 1B today and could not finish my last set of DL because I simply could no longer hold the bar, in spite of readjusting couple of times. My grip was so toasted it was even necessary to go lighter than I wanted to on my last set of lunges afterwards. Very frustrating!! I'm going to buy a set of straps before my next B workout.
I was in the same position and my trainer happened to bring up the fact that my back and legs are much stronger than my hands.
Even using the straps, my grip strength has doubled from where I was the beginning of January. I only use them for DLs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytsi
I've always been in the minority (along with Karla) here - I use grips (I love my versa-grips). I do work on grip strength, and don't use them to help my grip with most moves, but for big pull moves, I'd rather focus on the muscles that should be working than have to stop due to grip problems. My grip-strength is improving, but I don't want it to limit deadlifts, etc etc...
What's great about versa-grips for me is that they can be used as a "glove" for pushing, as a "wrap" for pulling, or not used at all... but I can just keep them on and make that choice on a set-by-set basis...
Yeah that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by missjane
There have been several prior discussions regarding straps and it seems to be an area where there are two distinct sides. Sort of like Republicans and Democrats, it seems. I guess it's an area where we have to agree to disagree.
For the record, I am in the 'no straps or gloves' camp!
This made me giggle.
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Question about Stage 2 deadlift from box
I'm going to buy a set of straps before my next B workout.
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