I am taking myself off of NROL4W challenge

[missjane]

I've done Natural Hormonal Enhancement (NHE) and carb cycled and now I am doing TNT and I definitely have seen improvements in my HDL and LDL and triglycerides. In fact, at our health screening here at work, my blood work was the best of anyone else! I'm certainly a fan of carb cycling.

[alessa]

When you guys carb cycle, how low and high do you go in carbs and calories?

[missjane]

I don't track calories right now. When I carb cycle, I stay very low during my low carb cycle and then on my carb up days, I limit my fat and protein and go way up on my carbs (no particular limit).

[Bytsi]

Someone competent needs to evaluate where you're at, create a specialized diet and training plan. Your progress will need to be evaluated on at least 2 week baisis...and changes made as you go. Having a personal trainer/nutritionist also provides countability.

I'm not really planning to use a trainer or nutritionist, but I work in medical fitness and have a lot of training and education, as do my coworkers (whom I regularly tap into for their knowledge and expertise in everything from squat form to eating plans).

I understand the recommendation you made, but I also noticed you did not use a trainer yourself... I was just hoping you'd elaborate a little more on your own journey, like when you decided to use HIIT or switch to more metabolic workouts, your own use of SS cardio (did you do it while doing Alwyn's workouts, or did you cut that out?) and how that all fit together, etc etc... thanks!

[Warrior]

Originally Posted by alessa

When you guys carb cycle, how low and high do you go in carbs and calories?

It’s about creating an energy deficit while depleting your body of carbs/glycogen. In other words, more activity means you can eat more. But don’t just starve yourself, you need activity to push out the glycogen and oxidize released fats. So low intensity and long endurance training is needed to keep things humming along. Strength training too, obviously.

What I usually do while depleting: eat nuts to fill in between meals (not peanuts, a legume, but nuts; such as pistachios, almonds and cashews). The nuts are the first thing I start to decrease as the diet moves along – that and increasing cardio sessions. While depleting, diet is strictly meats, eggs, seafood, green veggies (no root veggies like carrots, potatoes or yams!), onions, mushrooms… even mozzarella cheese as a garnishment.

During carb loads I eat a lot – so much I fill out and feel strong the next day. In fact, if I don’t take in enough water, a dry carb load can cause serious cramping during a power workout. I am usually sick of food by the time the carb load is exhausted and welcome a return to depletion.

Carb loading is where men and women will differ some… you’ll need to play with the total calories you can take in. But trust me, it tends to be a lot. Perhaps Natalia can fill us in on how high she took her carb loads.

When your body is fully depleted, it will shift focus on replenishment before fat gain. So you are able to basically overeat during a carb load and still lose fat. Studies suggest that the first 12 hours are actually really difficult to gain fat – after that, its best to stick to high-carb, low fat food choices until you return to depleting again.

Again, its all about keeping a training log and maintaining an expected fat loss tempo - each week you should expect to shave off a routine amount of bodyweight. Since your weight will change a lot, it's best to weigh in during the same phase - I like to judge weight changes after carb loading but I do track them daily to monitor fluctuations. If I notice I sudden increases while deplteing - something went wrong... poor food choice, salty meal, something. While deplting your bodyweight should consistently drop...

[Natalia]

Originally Posted by Bytsi

I was just hoping you'd elaborate a little more on your own journey

it was a long and lonely road....Could have been a lot shorted if I had a competent guidence and support by my side.

like when you decided to use HIIT or switch to more metabolic workouts

I did everything by Alwyn's book (NROL4W) from stage 1-3 including his HIIT prescription. When I gained sufficient muscle mass I decided to find a way to shed the lard. And stumbled upon UD2 through Warrior's site. That program outline diet as well and training. So, that was the end of NROL4W for me.

your own use of SS cardio (did you do it while doing Alwyn's workouts, or did you cut that out?) and how that all fit together, etc etc... thanks!

Didn't do any SS cardio while on Alwyn's plan. There was no need for that, because my main goal was to gain mass.

[Natalia]

Originally Posted by Warrior

Carb loading is where men and women will differ some… you’ll need to play with the total calories you can take in. But trust me, it tends to be a lot. Perhaps Natalia can fill us in on how high she took her carb loads.
..

it seems that a successful carb load will depend on your insulin sensitivity.
I personally find that I am insulin-resistant....After large carb intake I tend to get tired and sleepy as opposed to energized. So, I do not 'go to town' on my carb loads. "The Ultimate Diet 2.0" book by Lyle McDonald goes onto all the numbers and stuff. I don't get paid for promoting it, y the way, but it's a great investment.


This thread turned into something completely different. Someone's gotta start a dedicated thread to carb cycling.

[PerfectMartini]

Originally Posted by Bytsi

I want to get stronger, but I also have fat to lose. I want to drop my bf% about 6-8%. I don't want to go back to what I was doing for years with little or no success - SS and aerobic interval cardio, lifting (pretty heavy but not metabolically taxing like Alwyn's workouts) and calorie restriction (between 1200-1500 cal/day and always mad at myself for being hungry and then ending up snacking at night).

6%-8% bodyfat is sub-essential for a woman according to the internet.

IANAD

[missjane]

I think she's saying she wants to drop 6-8%.....like go from 28% to 20%.

[Bytsi]

Originally Posted by PerfectMartini

6%-8% bodyfat is sub-essential for a woman according to the internet.

IANAD

I don't want to drop TO 6-8% - yikes! In fact, I've always understood that for women, essential bf% is closer to 10-12%... Let me rephrase - I want to drop 6-8% bodyfat off of where I am now!!!!

[Bytsi]

Natalia - thanks for answering my questions... I think I'll stick with NROL4W for at least one more stage and see where I am... I like the program a lot. It's just the fat girl inside me who gets scared pretty easily...

[Natalia]

Originally Posted by Bytsi

It's just the fat girl inside me who gets scared pretty easily...

there's a fat girl inside that cute little hamster with a barbell???

[Bluefever]

Originally Posted by Natalia

there's a fat girl inside that cute little hamster with a barbell???

LOL, sorry, had to jump in , that made me laugh...

I too am ready to see/do more of a cutting phase. I feel strong, I can see increased muscle on my body, but I just hate feeling "soft".

I feel like I am forever going to be stuck this way, cause I am soooo bad at the science of nutrition thing...

[alessa]

Thanks Warrior and Nat for sharing on carb cycling. It is very interesting. Like Natalia I too find that too many carbs just makes me sleepy and lethargic. I have been doing a very modified version of carb cycling but find that the day after a higher carb day, I am just too uncomfortably bloated and dozing at work. The same pair of pants will be fine one day and tight the next. It reminds me of my Atkins days 10 years ago when a piece of bread would blow me up. I thought that I have since become much more moderate about watching carbs but with the cycling notice that I am still pretty sensitive to them, especially early in the day which is when it's probably best to have them in terms of fueling metabolism.

In any case, I am in Stage 3 and not losing any fat so far, so I am always eager to hear others' experiences. Thanks.

[alessa]

Oops, my manners - thanks to MissJane too! With the recent discussion of oxidation rates, I wonder if your ability to go higher carb and lower p/f on cycle days means you are a slower oxidizer. I would be on my couch asleep for 3 hours! In fact, the last time I gave in to a craving for a pastry in the morning was four and a half years ago. I remember distinctly bc I had to go home from work early to force a cardio session and then crashed on my couch and let it wear off. I decided from there it simply wasn't practical for me to have those kinds of cheats.

[PowerManDL]

Bytsi -- Stop thinking in binary terms.

It's not about either

1) restricting calories like crazy and doing tons of volume of SS cardio
or
2) lifting heavy and doing intervals while eating a lot more food

There's a happy medium in between the two.

You can rely on lifting, moderate calorie deficits, and moderate to low amounts of "metabolic work". You just have to keep those three factors in balance. The more high-intensity activity, the more the need to eat.

You just need to establish a net calorie balance in order to decrease fat mass. Nobody here is suggesting that you drop calories as low as you can stand and sit on the treadmill for 2 hours a day.

There's a point of moderation between all these variables.

You have to stop thinking of it as an either/or thing.

[dragonflyjess]

Originally Posted by missjane

I d