The "F" word and weight lifting - Feminism

[Silly Sally]

Femininity. I think we each need to find our own definitions. I LOVE getting beautiful; flowing dresses, blingy jewelry, new hairstyles, painted toes, and especially being told I look good - all make me feel fabulous. So does being able to do 10 strong, military push-ups, curling 25 lbs, and running at 7.7 for longer and longer each time.

I've been athletic and competitive (mostly with myself) to a fault most of my life, and taught my kids to be the same. Both girls are super-athletes (full scholarships to NCAA schools), and both boys, not so much. They compete, but for them, it's not intense. Does that mean the girls are "masculine" and the boys "feminine"?

My Dad called my brother "the brains", my sister "the beauty" and I was "the athlete". For years, I resented my moniker - I wanted to be smart and beautiful! Now, I'm pretty flippin' proud to be who I am.

My mom - a VERY traditionally feminine lady - used to say: viva la difference. And, even though I pump iron, I've gotta agree.

[PowerManDL]

Originally Posted by rixatrix

What I see here are women expressing how they came to realize their own personal strengths and learn to grow on them. And if anything, comparing what they can do to what other women can do, and learning that they can reach far beyond those bounds.

Indeed.

If I understand right, you say that:
1) Gender roles are primarily biological.

Gender roles are culturally derived from biological/evolutionary factors, yes.

2) Aligning oneself as a "Feminist" means you have a lack of common sense.

Right.

The comment was in response to the post immediately above, re: a device enabling women to pee standing up.

That's not so much a sign of "female liberation" as much as it is a "hey see I can do ANYTHING you do!" chip-on-the-shoulder mentality.

Congratulations, you're still enslaved by "Men" by trying your damndest to be just like them.

3) Women should stop calling themselves "feminists" (or perhaps even "women" entirely) on the basis that it's an admission that someone still considers women second-class, and we should pretend that doesn't exist.

Right, that's exactly what I said.

I didn't think being devoid of context and deliberately antagonistic was a role of feminism, but I could be wrong.

What I said was that reacting to the label doesn't "free" you. Reacting just makes you the spoiled rebellious kid instead of the good conformist kid. You're still the kid reacting to the oppressive parent.

So what exactly are you trying to say, other than being provocative just to provoke?

Well, if you got the chip off your shoulder, you'd have seen the point. At least three other people have understood what I was saying so far.

Your own reaction to the word "Feminism" suggests to me that you already have a set idea of what you thought would be contained in this thread, and perhaps you should stop reacting to the "current model" and take these words on their own worth.

My reaction to the word "feminism" was one particular instance. Beyond that, I clarified my position.

Again, if you're just going to shift your mentality to the aggressive chip on the shoulder thinking, you're not doing any favors for the ideology.

My point: break free of the labeling and stop trying to use arbitrary definitions to define you as a person.

[ledove]

Originally Posted by missjane

I think you need to re-read that SF article. Rix linked to it in the first post. It's a great article!

Push-ups giving women a bad rep

Sorry, missjane, I guess I wasn't clear. I was referring to the part where the SF article writer quoted a backlashing feminist blogger at the end of the opener (and then took issue with what the other lady said). So, a quote of a quote.

I agree, it's a great article. And I agree with it--stop whining that pushups are "sexist" and start doing them.

Here's a newsflash about why women have a hard time with push-ups: We don't do them. We don't do other kinds of weight training that would build the necessary strength.

[Aoife]

The comment was in response to the post immediately above, re: a device enabling women to pee standing up.

That's not so much a sign of "female liberation" as much as it is a "hey see I can do ANYTHING you do!" chip-on-the-shoulder mentality.

Congratulations, you're still enslaved by "Men" by trying your damndest to be just like them.

lol
not a device. I mean, maybe there are devices, but I'm talking about learning how to pee standing up.

And, no, it really has nothing to do with being a man, like a man, equal to a man, or anything like that in my mind. It has everything to do with the fact that some women are frickin disgusting in the bathroom, pee all over the seat to avoid sitting on it, and leave it there for the next poor girl. If ya knew how to pee standing up, you could avoid the unpleasantness of some women's bathrooms.

But I like your take on it. I can see how someone might see it as wanting to be like a boy. I personally, don't think boys are terribly worth being like anymore than anyone else, but it's interesting that's how you took it. Another byproduct of thinking that men are somehow so damned awsum that there's the automatic assumption that such a thing would be to "be like a man" and not another purpose?

I mostly kid, but it's still interesting what people bring to what they read.

[PowerManDL]

It was more because I've heard that very argument made, that because men can do it, therefore women have some right mysteriously derived from....something.

You might have noticed, I make it a hobby to argue with the small-minded. I don't particularly care what topic.

[Aoife]

that's why you're fun.

[chickdiver]

This device makes it easy to pee standing up

She-P - The P-Valve Catheter Condom for Women

I couldn't resist....

Actually- the device has a serious purpose. It was developed for (and by) female technical divers for use with drysuits (we are sometimes in the suits for 6-8 hours or more at a time). I was one of the Beta testers.

[Aoife]

that does NOT look fun

[chickdiver]

The diving or the She-P?

The diving is an acquired taste- this type of stuff isn't for everyone (kind of like competing in figure/ fitness isn't for everyone who likes to lift)- it's definitely the extreme side. OTOH- once you have spent years wearing diapers so you can maintain proper hydration... this is a joy.

[Aoife]

oh, diving is fine. I'm saying ... well... pretty much any peeing device.
lol

[MuscleMom23]

Well you learn something everyday, diving diapers LOL! So basically they guys don't wear diapers either?

Never mind, I won't figure it out LOL

[chickdiver]

Originally Posted by MuscleMom23

Well you learn something everyday, diving diapers LOL! So basically they guys don't wear diapers either?

Never mind, I won't figure it out LOL

Nope, the guys don't wear diapers. They wear an external condom catheter, which attaches to a bit of tubing which is attached to a bulkhead in the suit (AKA a "P Valve"). We ladies use the same tubing and bulkhead mechanism.

[bbbom]

Originally Posted by MuscleMom23

No one ever said I could not, nor could. I just did.

I found myself in places as the only woman and wondered where all the women were. I worked with all men for a long long time as the only women and nearly the only woman in my field at the time.

I made the way, I took the hits but I never stopped. I got harrassed, abused etc. But it was not ever a question to just be me.

This is me. Period.

Just do what ya gotta do.

I could have written that! I never gave any thought to what I should be doing, I have always just done what interested me without considering if it was a man's activity or a woman's activity. It always interests me when someone points out "Wow, I didn't know women did this." Why not, I can so I do.

PowerManDL, I have to agree with your sentiments, especially this
"My point: break free of the labeling and stop trying to use arbitrary definitions to define you as a person." But, even in this day and age, there are still some serious barriers in society that will affect even the strongest willed people when they step out of the old roles. So it isn't as easy as just breaking free of the labeling.

As far as the article, good read! I love pushups, my 13 yo daughter has held the record for most full pushups done in one minute at her middle school for two years now. She did tie with one boy in her class this year but she said that if she had known that he did 28 she would have pumped out one more but she tied him at 28.

[Karen P]

I had an experience today that made me think of this thread, so I thought I'd post. Today at work I was poicking up some heavy signs and carrying them to a storage closet. One of the guys was like "wo there halse, you got it?" He didn't mean anyting by it, but I just thougt it was interesting how he used the word "halse." Once again, women just aren't expected to be strong and when we are stong, we must be something unusual and unpleasant, like a halse. Sorry to vent on you guys. Thanks for listening.

[LisaS]

what's a halse? (google gives me a UK tractor or variation of hawse)

[PowerManDL]

I'd say it's phonetic for "hoss"