How low do you go? - JP Fitness Forums

nancysmithwp · 03-24-2008, 06:06 PM

Today was my last Exercise A from Phase I, and I've been perusing the book in anticipation of Phase II. I notice where he says you should always increase your weight every time you go to the gym, and that women don't normally lift heavy enough.

So as I'm doing squats, I try to add 40 pounds to the bar, and can almost get to parallel, while with 30, I can go a bit below parallel like all the vids show. So am I right to stay lower to maintain form, or am I being too conservative? Maybe I'm just chickening out the last few inches. How do you judge when to increase?

prof41 · 03-24-2008, 06:26 PM

Hey Nancy

The general consensus I believe on this forum is form over weights. I'll admit, however, that I have at least tried heavier weights, with imperfect form to at least see if I can do it.

If I find I'm sacrificing form too much, I'll drop the weights.

rixatrix · 03-24-2008, 06:42 PM

I go ass to grass. Why figure out how strong you can be at a partial exercise? I'd rather work on my "weakest" weight and know that I could easily lift heavier doing a partial, then to know that my partial weight is just an impressive number. Sort of like, you're only as good the weakest link in your chain approach.

I dropped weight last week on my deadlifts to work on my form. Don't let your ego talk you into an injury.

missjane · 03-24-2008, 06:46 PM

LaraT · 03-24-2008, 06:57 PM

Also go ass to grass!

But I don't think it ever said in the book to increase your weight EACH time you go to the gym. That would not be realistic expectation at all. It is more over time.

Beckwa · 03-24-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote from page 139 of NROL4W:
"Your goal is to use more weight in every exercise, in every workout."

He goes on to explain that for exercises using only body weight, such as push-ups and what to do when you can only increase by 5 pounds(since dumbbells aren't always available in one pound increments).

missjane · 03-24-2008, 07:26 PM

If we go back to the OP...she can squat ATG at 75 lbs, but not at 85. If I were her and I had nailed all of my reps and sets at 75 with perfect form, then I would try for 80 next time. Maybe in a few workouts, the reps drop and more weight can be added OR maybe the reps increase and weight needs to be dropped. I try to improve upon every workout. This may mean perfecting form, adding weight, adding reps (if called for), etc. The point being to always be challenging my body.

feralBoy · 03-24-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beckwa

Quote from page 139 of NROL4W:
"Your goal is to use more weight in every exercise, in every workout."

He goes on to explain that for exercises using only body weight, such as push-ups and what to do when you can only increase by 5 pounds(since dumbbells aren't always available in one pound increments).

I think the "goal" to use more weight in every exercise, in every workout, is very different from actually increasing weight in every exercise, every workout. It's just a mathematic impossibility over the long term, even if you only increase by 1lb.

In the first book, NROL, it says the goal is to set a record with each workout. That could mean increasing weight, higher reps, better form, whatever.

Beckwa · 03-24-2008, 07:40 PM

I was just quoting what the book said, but when I read it the first time, I thought the same thing about mathematical improbability. I have been trying to do all my exercises with good form and increase with each workout when possible. I have limited weights here at home, so I don't know what I'll do eventually when I move past them.

rixatrix · 03-25-2008, 04:27 AM

Yeah, I think the difference between a goal and the reality are big when you look at each workout. But if I can lift 30lbs for this workout and the next, and then move up to 35lbs after that, I've increased that weight by five pounds, and if you average that over three workouts...well, maybe it's more about trends. Because he also says there are going to be days where you go into the gym and have a fantastic workout, and days where you go into the gym and it's sort of dismal. But you should always be TRYING to increase weight when you feel ready. Not just sticking with the Barbie weights for weeks on end like a gym bunny.

Phaedrus49er · 03-25-2008, 05:15 AM

Doesn't necessarily mean "significant" weight. I increase my weight every workout, even if it's only by five pounds on a single set for the entire session.

Libellula · 03-25-2008, 08:31 AM

I go ass to grass.

UConnJulie · 03-25-2008, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rixatrix

I go ass to grass. Why figure out how strong you can be at a partial exercise? I'd rather work on my "weakest" weight and know that I could easily lift heavier doing a partial, then to know that my partial weight is just an impressive number. Sort of like, you're only as good the weakest link in your chain approach.

I dropped weight last week on my deadlifts to work on my form. Don't let your ego talk you into an injury.

Quote:

Originally Posted by missjane

If we go back to the OP...she can squat ATG at 75 lbs, but not at 85. If I were her and I had nailed all of my reps and sets at 75 with perfect form, then I would try for 80 next time. Maybe in a few workouts, the reps drop and more weight can be added OR maybe the reps increase and weight needs to be dropped. I try to improve upon every workout. This may mean perfecting form, adding weight, adding reps (if called for), etc. The point being to always be challenging my body.

Exactly. And on Alwyn's blog he talks about a woman who increased her squat weight by 30# over the course of stage 1. Then he comments that she obviously started too low because that kind of gain is beyond the realm of true max gains.

My feeling is that you should TRY a heavier weight with perfect form. If you can only get 3 reps at that weight, then that is where you start next time. If it is practical, finish the set with a lower weight.

PerfectMartini · 03-25-2008, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nancysmithwp

Today was my last Exercise A from Phase I, and I've been perusing the book in anticipation of Phase II. I notice where he says you should always increase your weight every time you go to the gym, and that women don't normally lift heavy enough.

So as I'm doing squats, I try to add 40 pounds to the bar, and can almost get to parallel, while with 30, I can go a bit below parallel like all the vids show. So am I right to stay lower to maintain form, or am I being too conservative? Maybe I'm just chickening out the last few inches. How do you judge when to increase?

If you can't go below parallel with the higher weight because your back is losing its arch then I would say to drop the weight, or maybe do one set with the higher weight and reduced range of motion and the other sets with a lower weight and full range of motion.

If you can't go below parallel because you somehow sense that if you go lower you won't get back up then assuming it is safe for you to fail a squat then I would say put on the heavier weight, go all the way down and see what happens.

Lisa~ · 03-25-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerfectMartini

If you can't go below parallel because you somehow sense that if you go lower you won't get back up then assuming it is safe for you to fail a squat then I would say put on the heavier weight, go all the way down and see what happens.

This is the time to find a good spotter. Sometimes it's fear that keeps us from going full ROM with a heavier load than we've tried before. The confidence a good spotter can provide might make all the difference.

I shoot for hips below the knees on every rep. I don't like the term "ass-to-the-grass" because it implies sitting on your calves. Never relax in bottom position. Keep the tension in your muscles, even if you do have the flexibility to touch your hamstrings to your calves without losing your lumbar arch.

Remember the overall guideline for squat depth: Go as low as possible without changing your lumbar spine or tucking your tailbone under.

Disclaimer: I know it's just terminology and using ATG lets others know you're doing a full Olympic-style squat, so I don't think that everyone who said is relaxing at the bottom. It's just one of my pet peeves.

nancysmithwp · 03-25-2008, 05:23 PM

A spotter! Yes! That's why men work out in two's!

I do think I might be able to go lower, but I'm afraid I might get stuck down there.

rixatrix · 03-25-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nancysmithwp

A spotter! Yes! That's why men work out in two's!

I do think I might be able to go lower, but I'm afraid I might get stuck down there.

That's what the safety rails are for. Just dump it off the back and breathe easy. And I'm willing to bet, ten to one, that you can get at least ONE rep out at the heavy weight. And if you can get one, you'll know if you'll get stuck on two and you can hold off. But I bet you can do at least one!

PowerManDL · 03-26-2008, 07:14 AM

FWIW, I've anecdotally found that the high-bar full-depth OL type squat is a different beast from cutting depth *slightly* with a little wider stance and a lower bar position.

The OL style is a much more form-intensive move and doesn't always lend itself to higher reps. The lower bar style tends to be more of a brute-force lift. It's still a technique-driven lift, but it seems to be more "elastic" for lack of a better word than the full-depth squat.

Exhibit A - Full-depth OL style

Exhibit B - Lower-bar "athletic" style

The difference is really subtle, and you might not even be able to see it because of the differences in angle, but the gist of it is.....use the form that lets you achieve the workout goal. One style is more suited for top-end strength and few reps, while the