Is it just me, or is it just that my weak ass is getting kicked by the prescribed back-to-back hardcore weight lifting and HIIT? I am exhausted by the time I am through stage 2's workout B, and I couldn't finish my intervals today. I started to do the gave-it-all-I-got on the treadmill and had to jam the stop button at 30 secs to stop from falling off--usually I can maintain that pace for 1 minute.
Why the torture? Is it to the effect of a greater afterburn? Can I move HIIT to workout A instead, where the lighter lifting regime leaves me with a lot more energy? I'm curious as to the benefit of inducing this intense exhaustion (it makes workout 2B almost 2 hours in the gym for me too) .
On the side, a nutrition question: I have a bad habit of overeating on non-workout days and a poor appetite on workout days. I want an overall calorie deficit, so is it okay to eat less on workout days anyway BUT have a high intake protein (like 140-160 g) so as not to have a catabolic effect?
I like to say that Stage 2 Workout B stands for B-I-T-C-H. It's way hard for me too. I am on B3, and was able to complete 6 intervals today, but it was VERY, VERY hard and I think I worried RedLefty (my hubby) a little afterward.
Not sure about the nutrition. Are you getting the results you want from the program and your nutrition regimine? If you're ok with how things are going, keep doing what you're doing. If you don't see the body recomp that you were hoping for (or whatever your goal is), it could be a function of your eating...and the only way I know to figure it out is to try different stuff (i.e. following the guidelines in the book).
There are a lot of people that claim cardio after weights is much better for weight loss, because you've already depleted your glycogen stores from the lifting, so your body has no choice but to tap into stored fat to replenish it. But other schools of thought say that when you workout doesn't matter - it's all about overall burning more calories than you consume. There's lots of arguments for both sides, and I think it' a case of needing to try out various methods to see what works for you.
If you're too burned out after weights to do good intervals, then you might want to save them for later when you can give them more. Lots of people to HIIT on alternate days from their weight days and have success.
As for food, again, some people say if you have an overall caloric deficit, you're good. Others are very regimented about specific amounts of food within specific timeframes. It depends on your goals and your body. Like RedWifey suggested, you should just try it for a while and see how it goes. If you're not making the kind of progress you'd like, then make modifications. But you need to give it a chance to see if it's working before you second guess yourself and switch too soon.
Stage 2 workout A has the front squat to push press, which is a power move that really gets your heart rate up. Keeping up the pace during the supersets that follow makes workout A very metabolic. Workout B, however, begins with a deficit deadlift, which is a strength move and does not create that same heart pumping effect. The prone Cuban snatch and all the ab work really lets the heart rate come down too. Workout B adds intervals at the end because the whole workout is not as metabolically stimulating as workout A.
With that said, if workout B is kicking your butt and you can't perform the intervals afterwards, then by all means do them on another day.
I did Stage 2 B2 last night and couldn't do the HIIT; I was way too exhausted and thought that I would end up hurting myself. I did it this morning instead.
As for the eating, I find that I am always hungrier on my post-workout day. I figured it's just because my body needed something extra. If you're seeing results that you like, I don't think I'd worry too much about it. Especially since you're getting a lot of protein.
...Workout B, however, begins with a deficit deadlift, which is a strength move and does not create that same heart pumping effect. ... Workout B adds intervals at the end because the whole workout is not as metabolically stimulating as workout A.
Whoa, there, Miss Lisa. My heart pumps desperately after I do those deficit deadlifts. If I didn't have all the flab as I do over my rib cage it would bust out and run across the street to live with the yoga/pilates lady.
And THEN I do those Bulgarian split squats and whoa, just whoa.
And I won't even go into those reverse lunges from box with forward reach, except to say that I am panting and sweating and cursing the name of Alwyn Cosgrove. (And Lou Schuler. I always curse Lou's name for good measure. And if my husband walks by he gets a good cursing, too.)
How can that not be as metabolically stimulating as workout A?
There are a lot of people that claim cardio after weights is much better for weight loss, because you've already depleted your glycogen stores from the lifting, so your body has no choice but to tap into stored fat to replenish it. But other schools of thought say that when you workout doesn't matter - it's all about overall burning more calories than you consume. There's lots of arguments for both sides, and I think it' a case of needing to try out various methods to see what works for you.
Well, I know you are saying that some think one thing and some think another, but for the purposes of THIS program, which is a weight training program, that is just bad advice. One of the main reasons it is advised to do weights first is so you have enough energy to perform your lifts to your greatest ability while maintaining proper form. I think that would be extremely difficult if you are doing cardio (especially HIIT) first.
And, I know you say that this is what people say, but I've always heard that you perform your top priority first. Meaning, if you are training for a race, you do cardio first. If you are doing weight training you do weights first.
Sorry to the OP for high-jacking the thread a little.
As far as your question regarding nutrition, as long as you aren't eating a LOT less on your workout days, I wouldn't think it would be a huge issue.
Several people here are doing intervals on non-lifting days.
But what do you mean Stage 2/workout b is taking you two hours? It should only take about 35 minutes or so???
Maybe because this is my second workout on Stage B so I am still on the learning curve, and taking longer. There are 18 sets in Workout 2B: let's say each takes about a minute to do, so just doing them without rest will be 18 minutes. Its probably closer to 30 mins, since evil excercises like the lateral flexion and lunges and squats require you to do each side.
I rest 75 seconds each set, so that's 75x18=22.5 minutes (Am I doing it wrong and should be doing supersets or something?) Add 18 mins to 22.5 mins and you get 40.5 mins. Add about 20 minutes of intervals and you get 60.5 minutes. Add a queue for the squat rack, warm-up sets, loading plates, water fountain and fool around with hubby time and I get almost 2 hours.
so 18x1 + 18x75 + 20 = minimum 60.5 minutes
Am I doing something wrong?
And Lisa, as usual you give great answers. Because workout A is much shorter than B, I didn't notice the exhausation as much as B despite the constant elevated heartrate (the push-presses are incredibly taxing!). I also think it depends on my varying energy levels on any given day.
Whoa, there, Miss Lisa. My heart pumps desperately after I do those deficit deadlifts. If I didn't have all the flab as I do over my rib cage it would bust out and run across the street to live with the yoga/pilates lady.
And THEN I do those Bulgarian split squats and whoa, just whoa.
And I won't even go into those reverse lunges from box with forward reach, except to say that I am panting and sweating and cursing the name of Alwyn Cosgrove. (And Lou Schuler. I always curse Lou's name for good measure. And if my husband walks by he gets a good cursing, too.)
How can that not be as metabolically stimulating as workout A?
WORD to that!
Here's what I logged the first stage 2 workout B: "Workout 2B KICKED my ass. I was out of breath after the deadlifts, panting by the lat pulldowns, and wondering how the heck I'm going to do HIIT when 5 lb dumbells feel like 20 lbs before I even started the crunches. I did it though, then ate like a horse afterwards."
I should take up the practice of cursing Alwyn and Lou too
I find myself hungrier on the non lifting days, but I suspect that is because I didn't eat ENOUGH on lifting days.
There’s a difference between not eating enough on workout days and being hungrier the next day. I know when I haven’t had enough to eat on a workout day because I struggle to get through my workouts, weights seem heavier, I get lightheaded, and sweat 10x more than when I have enough to eat. I definitely don’t think that I’m hungrier the next day because I didn’t eat enough on my workout day.
I always do HIIT on a separate day, but that is more out of personal preference - if I can get in and out of the gym in 45 minutes or less, I am much happier (esp since I go at 5:30am, it allows me just a little bit more time to sleep in).
If you feel like you physically can't give your "all" to HIIT, definitely try moving it to off-days.
Also, as far as nutrition goes, in my opinion, you are somewhat negating your efforts of heavy lifting by shorting yourself of nutrition on lifting days. If I were you, I would do my best to move the lower-calorie days to off-lifting days.
Maybe because this is my second workout on Stage B so I am still on the learning curve, and taking longer. There are 18 sets in Workout 2B: let's say each takes about a minute to do, so just doing them without rest will be 18 minutes. Its probably closer to 30 mins, since evil excercises like the lateral flexion and lunges and squats require you to do each side.
I rest 75 seconds each set, so that's 75x18=22.5 minutes (Am I doing it wrong and should be doing supersets or something?) Add 18 mins to 22.5 mins and you get 40.5 mins. Add about 20 minutes of intervals and you get 60.5 minutes. Add a queue for the squat rack, warm-up sets, loading plates, water fountain and fool around with hubby time and I get almost 2 hours.
so 18x1 + 18x75 + 20 = minimum 60.5 minutes
Am I doing something wrong?
And Lisa, as usual you give great answers. Because workout A is much shorter than B, I didn't notice the exhausation as much as B despite the constant elevated heartrate (the push-presses are incredibly taxing!). I also think it depends on my varying energy levels on any given day.
Thank you for all the answers.
All the exercises except for the deadlift and prone cobra are supposed to be supersets. Each set is 10 reps and there are just 2 sets of each exercise. I wouldn't think it would take 1 minute to do 10 reps but I guess people go at different speeds. I wasn't counting the HIIT at part of the workout so yes with HIIT it would be about one hour but really don't see it being much more unless you are having to wait in lines for equipment. It takes me about 35-40 minutes (just the weights part, not including HIIT)
Actually, they aren't TRUE supersets (which are done without rest). These are ALTERNATING sets, with the entire 75 seconds of rest between each exercise.
For me, it takes me at least a minute to do each set of the deadlifts. Also, all sets where I have to do each leg....those take me probably over a minute. Then, the cobras take a minute. So, I would say about 45 minutes for the workout and then the HIIT. So about an hour and 10 minutes, total.
I rest 75 seconds each set, so that's 75x18=22.5 minutes (Am I doing it wrong and should be doing supersets or something?) Add 18 mins to 22.5 mins and you get 40.5 mins. Add about 20 minutes of intervals and you get 60.5 minutes. Add a queue for the squat rack, warm-up sets, loading plates, water fountain and fool around with hubby time and I get almost 2 hours.
so, are you getting a lot more than 75 seconds between your sets, then? If so, that's a problem. I try to get everything set up before I start my workout (like steps & dumbbells), so I don't have to worry as much about moving stuff around or getting stuff. I load plates during my rest periods (is this bad?). Get a big water bottle (like a liter) and fill it before your workout. You shouldn't need to refill it, keeping you on course. When's the "fool around with hubby" time? Can you save that for after the workout?
It took me just over an hour to do 2B yesterday after work. Started about 5:50 and ended somewhere around 7pm.
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"If 'toning' is the goal, strength is the method." ~ Mark Rippetoe
Whoa, there, Miss Lisa. My heart pumps desperately after I do those deficit deadlifts. If I didn't have all the flab as I do over my rib cage it would bust out and run across the street to live with the yoga/pilates lady.
And THEN I do those Bulgarian split squats and whoa, just whoa.
And I won't even go into those reverse lunges from box with forward reach, except to say that I am panting and sweating and cursing the name of Alwyn Cosgrove. (And Lou Schuler. I always curse Lou's name for good measure. And if my husband walks by he gets a good cursing, too.)
How can that not be as metabolically stimulating as workout A?
You always make me laugh.
OK, there's no discounting your personal experience. If that's how it affected you, then that's your experience! But since you addressed me in particular, I'll give you my take and my experience with these workouts.
I think workout A is more metabolic because: Front squat to push press really, really gets my heart rate up. The next three pairs of exercises are all difficult enough to keep my heart rate up, especially single-leg work and push-ups. Even the ab work in workout A is very metabolic.
I think workout B is still challenging, but in different ways. While deadlifts are heavy and require a strong effort, it's not the same kind of feel as the power move from workout A. I sweat, for sure, but my heart rate will come down between sets pretty quickly. Then, for the next two pairs, each has a single-leg move that's metabolically challenging, but it's paired with an exercise that uses a bench. You get to sit down or lie down for that second movement. It's not nearly as metabolically taxing as the pairs from workout A. As a result, my heart rate will come down during the second exercise. Then the ab work is downright sleepy. We had another conversation (in another thread) on that topic. My CNS really starts to calm down during the ab work--ball crunches and side flexion just aren't whole body difficult like planks and cable woodchops. All this ab work is supported (by the floor or ball). In my book that makes it not as metabolically challenging.
for the purposes of THIS program, which is a weight training program, that is just bad advice.
Gina, chill!
Read instantblue's comments again. She never mentioned doing cardio before lifting. She said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by instantblue
There are a lot of people that claim cardio after weights is much better for weight loss, because you've already depleted your glycogen stores from the lifting, so your body has no choice but to tap into stored fat to replenish it. But other schools of thought say that when you workout doesn't matter...
If you're too burned out after weights to do good intervals, then you might want to save them for later when you can give them more. Lots of people to HIIT on alternate days from their weight days and have success.
Since the previous discussion had been about moving the HIIT to non-lifting days or after workout A, I really think that's what she was referring to. It was a good post.
All the exercises except for the deadlift and prone cobra are supposed to be supersets. Each set is 10 reps and there are just 2 sets of each exercise. I wouldn't think it would take 1 minute to do 10 reps but I guess people go at different speeds. I wasn't counting the HIIT at part of the workout so yes with HIIT it would be about one hour but really don't see it being much more unless you are having to wait in lines for equipment. It takes me about 35-40 minutes (just the weights part, not including HIIT)
Curious how long it is taking other people?
Even without the intervals, weightlifting alone would take 40 minutes at the minimum. I can't see how you can do exercises like the hip flexion 2 in just one minute since you have to pause 5 seconds at the top with each rep. Plus, I take a minute or two before a major exercise to do warm-up sets. I imagine I would have to be zipping through the workout like a maniac on speed to make 40 mins, but all the better for you if you find a way to get out of the gym early.
As missjane points out, these are not supersets. Supersets mean 0 seconds of rest in between each set. They are alternating sets with rest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyMartini
so, are you getting a lot more than 75 seconds between your sets, then? If so, that's a problem. I try to get everything set up before I start my workout (like steps & dumbbells), so I don't have to worry as much about moving stuff around or getting stuff. I load plates during my rest periods (is this bad?). Get a big water bottle (like a liter) and fill it before your workout. You shouldn't need to refill it, keeping you on course. When's the "fool around with hubby" time? Can you save that for after the workout?
It took me just over an hour to do 2B yesterday after work. Started about 5:50 and ended somewhere around 7pm.
No, I load my plates in rest time too. This is my second time doing stage 2 workout B, so I guess I'm still taking time to learn the neuromuscular skills in performing these exercise. I take back my original estimate of 2 hours--that was more like my first workout when I was trying to get my form right first and miming the exercises before doing it for real (they are darn complex for a weight lifting newbie). My second time doing it is about 1 hour and 15 or 30 mins.
Workout A in stage 2 is definately harder for me than B....no way I would be able to do intervals after A....
That does NOT by any means imply that w/b B is easy....I did B3 last night and could not get off the floor for the intervals uh uh!!!!
So did them tonight instead....I don't get pukey doing intervals....is this a bad thing
I think a lot depends on where your strengths lie. For me, workout A is "easier" maybe because I am stronger cardiovascularly compared to strength/anaerobic?
Workout A in stage 2 is definately harder for me than B....no way I would be able to do intervals after A....
That does NOT by any means imply that w/b B is easy....I did B3 last night and could not get off the floor for the intervals uh uh!!!!
So did them tonight instead....I don't get pukey doing intervals....is this a bad thing
I agree with you, LaraT. That is really interesting to note that different people have different exhausation levels to stage 2's A and B. It makes sense that everyone has different bodies better adapted to perform certain excercises.
And thats really funny "getting pukey" is an expectation of HIIT...I would say its all a matter of perceived effort. As you build up anabolic fitness, you are more likely to do them until you want to vomit. I'm going to start using a heart rate monitor soon to get a more accurate assessment of whether I'm maxing out at HIIT.
I think a lot depends on where your strengths lie. For me, workout A is "easier" maybe because I am stronger cardiovascularly compared to strength/anaerobic?
Since the previous discussion had been about moving the HIIT to non-lifting days or after workout A, I really think that's what she was referring to. It was a good post.
Thanks, Lisa! That's exactly what I meant. Sorry if that was unclear.
And thats really funny "getting pukey" is an expectation of HIIT...I would say its all a matter of perceived effort. As you build up anabolic fitness, you are more likely to do them until you want to vomit. I'm going to start using a heart rate monitor soon to get a more accurate assessment of whether I'm maxing out at HIIT.[/quote]
Damn I figured I wasn's working hard enough....I suppose I'll put a bucket close to the treadmill, see if that motivates me
On the subject of nutrition and hunger on workout days versus non-workout days:
Doesn't a lot of that depend on when in the day we workout? I work out in late afternoon or early evenings and my hunger ramps up that night and the next day. By the morning of my next workout day, however, my hunger has subsided.
A lot of folks workout in the wee hours of early morning so it would make sense that they're bodies would be demanding appropriate eats at different times than mornings-are-from-the-devil people like myself.
Which also brings up the point of varying body clocks. Some of us are more active (in our general lifestyle) earlier in the day than others and, I'd think, that that somehow comes into play when combined with varying workout times.
Whatever the case, I've stopped stressing about the exact timing of it all in regards to total calories, other than to make sure I eat when hungry and get in pre- and post-workout goop. My body's much happier now.
Stage 2 Workout B Question + Nutrition Q
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