I've gone through a bunch of videos of the DB snatch and have seen wildly different forms. Can you post one that exhibits the right form and what we should be aiming for? I start Stage 3 tomorrow and that's the one exercise I'm a bit unsure of.
For some reason I wasn't able to embed the vid here....I did all the usual procedures...hmmm.
I was wondering if it had any benefit to raise your arm straight up (as in delt front raises) using lighter weight, of course, without extending your elbow to the side.....Just thinking out loud.
Thanks Natalia! I can't view YouTube at work, but I'll be sure to check it out before I head to the gym this evening. It's probably one I already viewed on YouTube....I looked at so many yesterday that I wasn't sure which ones were good and which ones were bad!! LOL!
I was wondering if it had any benefit to raise your arm straight up (as in delt front raises) using lighter weight, of course, without extending your elbow to the side.....Just thinking out loud.
No. That would make it a DB swing. A swing is a great exercise, just a bit different. In a snatch you don't use your arm very much at all. You throw the weight overhead by the power of your hips. It's not an arm movement.
I like the video you posted a lot. He looks great. He catches pretty low. You don't have to catch in that much of a squat, although there's certainly nothing wrong with it.
Here's the Holy Cross video. His technique is excellent also. He catches higher, which is fine (each person finds their own sweet spot). He jumps really high. You don't have to jump that high, but it's certainly ok if you do. http://college.holycross.edu/departm...B%20Snatch.mov
Just to learn about the snatch, watch the Holy Cross video again. When he turns for the side view he does 3 snatches. He catches the first one a bit too far out front. See him shift forward onto his toes? He corrects it on the second rep. That's a perfect catch. See where the DB is in relationship to his head? That's where it needs to be. On the third rep he's pretty good, maybe a bit too far back, but it's a good snatch. Also notice that he keeps his spine neutral and back fairly upright. That's perfect.
Here's a female athlete from Mike Boyle's site snatching a 60lb DB. She looks great:
And this last one is just my favorite one-arm snatch video. I just love watching Brad Cardoza. Here he's snatching the 150lb DB. Wow. Just beautiful. I'll just point out that Brad is doing a one-arm DB snatch from the floor. We're doing a one-arm DB snatch from the hang. (This video takes a minute to load, but it's soooo worth it!) http://www.pinnaclestrengthandfitnes...atch_150x5.AVI
I love this lift. It's just plain fun once you get the hang of it. Don't watch yourself in the mirror when you do Olympic lifts and their variations. You've got to just feel it when you get it right. Once you see that you're out of position, it's way too late to do anything about it. Think and feel where your body is instead of watching.
Again, I can't watch anything here at work, but I'll watch all of these when I get home before I go workout. Interesting, Lisa, that you mention not looking in the mirror, as I had planned on going to a place in the gym...sort of isolated.. where there is no mirror to do these, so that is perfect. I know I'll have to feel my way with the weight, but is there anyway to guesstimate my weight based upon the weight I have been doing with other exercises? Or just wing it?
I think you'll just have to wing it. It's about power. What you can do for a strength movement (like a squat) doesn't really relate. Some people can generate a lot of power even if their grind it out strength isn't great. Some people are the other way around and can grind out a big load but can't generate fast power at all. Some athletes are great at both. So we've not done anything that really demonstrates much power, except possibly the push press, but that's so different.
Wing it. Start with a moderate DB like a 15 or 20 and see how that goes. It's easier to learn the movement if the DB is heavy enough that doing a front raise with it would be too hard. That way you won't be able to pull it with your arm, which is the biggest mistake I see when a client is learning this movement for the first time. Remember, it feels like you're throwing it overhead with the power of your hips/legs.
Thanks for the videos. I have never done a dumbell snatch, just the olympic snatch. That looks like a great variation, and I'm going to try it.
What I would point out is that in the videos that show the side view, you see the dumbell travels a straight up and down path, which is good. In the snatch, people sometimes have a tendency to waste energy and put themselves in a mechanically disadvantageous position by moving the bar out and away in an arc from their body as they lift. Instead you want to see the bar (in this case the dumbell) travelling in the shortest path from the lift start to the top of the lift.
I'm looking forward to trying this dumbell variation later in the week--thanks for this discussion.
What I would point out is that in the videos that show the side view, you see the dumbell travels a straight up and down path, which is good. In the snatch, people sometimes have a tendency to waste energy and put themselves in a mechanically disadvantageous position by moving the bar out and away in an arc from their body as they lift. Instead you want to see the bar (in this case the dumbell) travelling in the shortest path from the lift start to the top of the lift.
It's easier to keep the DB traveling straight up than it is a barbell. But this is a good point. Pull straight up, like you want to hit your boobs with the DB.
The DB snatch is easier to learn and more fun to do than a barbell snatch, IMO.
Yes, that DB snatch was fun! Just came from the gym, and this exercise made my day. I love it. Went with 30 lbs, but feel I can up it.
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Now 'body matrix' was a different story. I loved it, but I hated it it more
Oh, Lisa, that 150lb snatch is beautiful. I went kinda low too. Felt more powerful.
I LOVED THESE!!! All of the video's and tips proved so helpful! I really put some jump into mine and I can now really see how this isn't an arm exercise at all.
Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I tried a dumbell snatch this past week, and found it to be a wonderful power exercise. Really enjoyable, exhausting (got my pulse wayyyy up) and much easier on my back than a regular barbell snatch.
Ok, can I just say that the move scares me? lol It's a good thing (for me!) that I'm just in Stage 1 and have a while to build up to it! hehehe I bet it's fun when you're actually doing it, though!
It's actually a pretty natural move once you try it. I've recorded a vid of it. Might take a while for the vids to download (I am going to figure out how to make .mov files smaller).
In comparing your video to the others, the only difference I see is when you bring the DM up...you stay straight up with your body. The other videos the people kind of dip back down into a squat. Not sure how important that is...I am not into that stage yet.
lol Natalia...I just have visions of losing my grip on the weight and it sailing through the air (and probably landing on some body part of mine). hehehe
It's actually a pretty natural move once you try it. I've recorded a vid of it. Might take a while for the vids to download (I am going to figure out how to make .mov files smaller).
In comparing your video to the others, the only difference I see is when you bring the DM up...you stay straight up with your body. The other videos the people kind of dip back down into a squat. Not sure how important that is...I am not into that stage yet.
It's not important to dip. Sometimes you will need to dip to get a heavier weight up there, but it takes time to get the form and movements down, too.
Sometimes, the weight is so light that you feel stupid dipping. But, you're knocking out tons of reps, so you're ass still gets fried.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maggieandmommy
lol Natalia...I just have visions of losing my grip on the weight and it sailing through the air (and probably landing on some body part of mine). hehehe
Don't worry. That will only happen if the weight is super light and you're really excited about snatching! The weight would have to be so light that the weight keeps going up when you stop. Go a little heavier.
I saw a girl doing them with 5lbs. Please, she could have done 15, easy. There's sort of a minimum weight that you can use. Anything less and you might as well just be jumping empty handed.
I am starting Stage 3 on Friday and this particular exercise concerns me. I suffer from tennis elbow in my right elbow and I am wondering if the "raise" portion of this exercise is going to aggravate it? In watching Natalia's videos, it appears to be more of a throw vs a raise, so hopefully I will be ok?
This exercise felt pretty odd to me when I did it on Friday.... and my bf, who is a trainer, said he's not a fan of it. He thinks it uses too much momentum and he doesn't see the point. I started with a 15lb DB, then went up on both of the following sets, doing my 3rd set with a 25lb DB. I did it in front of a mirror and other than the fact that I "dipped" again, I think it looked similar to Natalia's. The bf did say though on my first set that I was doing too much of a raise if I was going for more of a "throw"-type momentum like move... so at first I was making it too hard? I don't know... this exercise confuses me a bit. And it definitely tired my arm out before I felt it in my legs/butt.
This exercise felt pretty odd to me when I did it on Friday.... and my bf, who is a trainer, said he's not a fan of it. He thinks it uses too much momentum and he doesn't see the point. I started with a 15lb DB, then went up on both of the following sets, doing my 3rd set with a 25lb DB. I did it in front of a mirror and other than the fact that I "dipped" again, I think it looked similar to Natalia's. The bf did say though on my first set that I was doing too much of a raise if I was going for more of a "throw"-type momentum like move... so at first I was making it too hard? I don't know... this exercise confuses me a bit. And it definitely tired my arm out before I felt it in my legs/butt.
If your bf thinks that "power" lifts (that is, lifts that generate momentum) have no point, then that reflects a very particular idea of resitance training, that only allows for strength training.
There is a type of resistance training to generate maximum muscular strength--to be able to pick up/push/pull the most weight.
There is a type of resistance training to generate maximum muscular power--to be able to explosively pick up/push/pull the most weight quickly.
Muscular strength is great--being able to pick up, move around and handle heavy objects r0xx0rs b0x0rs.
Muscular power is great also--being able to make your muscles move in explosive coordination, for example in sports, is also the bomb.com.
Your bf is confusing a power movement with a strength movement, seeing the results backwards. In a snatch, you aren't using momentum to do the lift, rather, doing the lift results in momentum.
I am starting Stage 3 on Friday and this particular exercise concerns me. I suffer from tennis elbow in my right elbow and I am wondering if the "raise" portion of this exercise is going to aggravate it? In watching Natalia's videos, it appears to be more of a throw vs a raise, so hopefully I will be ok?
I've got a little "$5 hooker's elbow" as well. (Not being a fan of tennis, I had to come up with my own name. ) I was fairly scared of the DB snatches after seeing them but they've caused me no problems at all so far. You're not really lifting with your arm -- you're just kind of steering the DB so there's not much pressure or loaded twisting on the elbow joint at all.
I am starting Stage 3 on Friday and this particular exercise concerns me. I suffer from tennis elbow in my right elbow and I am wondering if the "raise" portion of this exercise is going to aggravate it? In watching Natalia's videos, it appears to be more of a throw vs a raise, so hopefully I will be ok?
There should be no raise at all. The power to send that db up needs to come primarily from the hips. You'll snap the hips, raise up on your toes, and shrug your shoulder, letting the arm guide the db past your body. If necessary, you'll dip your knees to get under it, but not with light weights. Not yet.
BTW, don't think about all that stuff. If sort of comes naturally, over time.
Don't do this, but in theory, you should almost be able to let go of the db, and it should go higher than your head.
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Originally Posted by Littlemermaidklb
This exercise felt pretty odd to me when I did it on Friday.... and my bf, who is a trainer, said he's not a fan of it. He thinks it uses too much momentum and he doesn't see the point. I started with a 15lb DB, then went up on both of the following sets, doing my 3rd set with a 25lb DB. I did it in front of a mirror and other than the fact that I "dipped" again, I think it looked similar to Natalia's. The bf did say though on my first set that I was doing too much of a raise if I was going for more of a "throw"-type momentum like move... so at first I was making it too hard? I don't know... this exercise confuses me a bit. And it definitely tired my arm out before I felt it in my legs/butt.
What Mandos said, to start.
As to the momentum part... Momentum is the point. This is mostly a lower body exercise. You are using the power in the lower body to propel the db up into the air.
When your bf mentioned the "raise" with the first set, it's likely because the weight is too light. Too little weight just feels odd. You use your arms because you can. You want enough weight so that you are forced to use all you got. When you went up in weight, you had no choice but to "throw" rather than "raise" it.
Once you get good, you'll find that you can snatch more than you can military press. That's the power of the hips. I can snatch a pretty heavy db, but there's no way I could military press the same amount. Not even close.
The benefit of this exercise is the ability to generate explosive power. Training this aspect of your strength will translate into the ability to get more weight moving with your deadlift, squats, push press, etc. When you are at the bottom of a squat and not moving, a little more power is a big help.
In comparing your video to the others, the only difference I see is when you bring the DM up...you stay straight up with your body. The other videos the people kind of dip back down into a squat. Not sure how important that is...I am not into that stage yet.
I'm not an expert, but I suspect the "dip" serves to "cushion" the weight at the top of the lift using your legs instead of your spine? I say this because I've done these without dipping before (pre-NROL4W) and I have a spine that looks like this but milder: http://www.ptclinic.com/medlibrary/images/scoliosis.gif. Needless to say, my spine did not like it.
Training this aspect of your strength will translate into the ability to get more weight moving with your deadlift, squats, push press, etc. When you are at the bottom of a squat and not moving, a little more power is a big help.
Thanks, LD, for mentioning this. I did notice a welcome change in my squats.
The "dip" gets you under the weight. You can snatch a heavier weight than you might otherwise by getting under the weight. Look at the video of the buff guy Natalia posted--he's using his whole body to explode and get the weight up X high. But since his shoulder is at X, he's dipping down to catch the weight. Snatches, bar or dumbell, are a continuous motion where a lifter explosively lifts a weight while lowering their body underneath it. I think the part we are most interested is the explosive lift part of it, and less the skill of getting under it, but I think there is still value in moving your body in coordinated lifts.
I am starting Stage 3 on Friday and this particular exercise concerns me. I suffer from tennis elbow in my right elbow and I am wondering if the "raise" portion of this exercise is going to aggravate it? In watching Natalia's videos, it appears to be more of a throw vs a raise, so hopefully I will be ok?
I've done these before and I also have tendinitis in my left elbow (from softball). Never had a problem with these because it's really momentum the propels the weight up and it doesn't put any kind of tension on the elbow.
Wow what a cool video Julie, thanks for posting it!
Replying to Mandos and LD: Thanks for your input guys :-) I talked to him about it again and he said you have a point with the power thing. He's worried about me throwing my shoulder out with these. I don't have a history of shoulder problems, but I admit I've wondered if this exercise might risk me doing something to my shoulder. I don't know... I guess his point is that there are probably other things that could also translate into more power for squats and deads than possibly throwing my shoulder out? At any rate.. I'll definitely keep at these for now and see if I get better at them and find my groove.
Wow what a cool video Julie, thanks for posting it!
Replying to Mandos and LD: Thanks for your input guys :-) I talked to him about it again and he said you have a point with the power thing. He's worried about me throwing my shoulder out with these. I don't have a history of shoulder problems, but I admit I've wondered if this exercise might risk me doing something to my shoulder. I don't know... I guess his point is that there are probably other things that could also translate into more power for squats and deads than possibly throwing my shoulder out? At any rate.. I'll definitely keep at these for now and see if I get better at them and find my groove.
I hear ya on the shoulder. I won't comment too much, as I am currently working on fixing my own shoulder. Julie also has a shoulder "history," but I'll let her comment on her routine.
Lisa~ Video of DB Snatch?
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