Just Read Book - Cardio Question

[femi]

Hi Everyone! I am new here and just finished reading the book.
I am concerned with the limited cardio suggested. He doesn't say not to do cardio but he doesn't indicate that it is necessary.
I have been (for many years) staying within a calorie range of 1200-1400 and lift 4 times weekly w/ 5 cardio sessions. Intuitvely, if I up my calories - 1500-2000 and decrease my cardio, I would assume that I would gain weight.

Any suggestons here??????

Thanks you!!!

[missjane]

Hi there....this thread might help you.

Are long cardio session really detrimental?

You present calorie intake seems awfully low. What is your RMR?

[femi]

Hi MissJane
Thanks for the link. It's really hard to change my thinking to believing that cardio is not the best for a scuplted body. As the book says, it's counterintuitive.

[Emoore]

I've been getting good results with very little in the way of cardio.

[frankcassiesmom]

Long cardio sessions aren't the only form of cardio A, lifting is cardio. B, I do more of a HIIT workout a number of times a week (after each lifting session and once on Sunday) You don't have to give up cardio, just HOW you do your cardio.

[rixatrix]

Originally Posted by femi

Hi Everyone! I am new here and just finished reading the book.
I am concerned with the limited cardio suggested. He doesn't say not to do cardio but he doesn't indicate that it is necessary.
I have been (for many years) staying within a calorie range of 1200-1400 and lift 4 times weekly w/ 5 cardio sessions. Intuitvely, if I up my calories - 1500-2000 and decrease my cardio, I would assume that I would gain weight.

Oh my gosh, I'm hungry just LOOKING at your calorie range. You're maintaining on that?

And yes, the "weight" gain is sort of the point - except you'll be gaining muscle, which will allow you to eat more and maintain your figure at a much higher range. You won't be getting bigger, however. Just tight and more compact. Sort of like how coal turns into a diamond.

Lots of cardio + low cal + easy weights = coal.
HIIT + more food + merciless weight workouts = diamond.

Give it a try before you decide it's not for you.

[Phaedrus49er]

Originally Posted by rixatrix

Lots of cardio + low cal + easy weights = coal.
HIIT + more food + merciless weight workouts = diamond.

Priceless.

[PowerManDL]

Originally Posted by femi

Hi Everyone! I am new here and just finished reading the book.
I am concerned with the limited cardio suggested. He doesn't say not to do cardio but he doesn't indicate that it is necessary.
I have been (for many years) staying within a calorie range of 1200-1400 and lift 4 times weekly w/ 5 cardio sessions. Intuitvely, if I up my calories - 1500-2000 and decrease my cardio, I would assume that I would gain weight.

Any suggestons here??????

Thanks you!!!

Firstly, how heavy are you? I'd guess you're fairly tiny with that kind of calorie intake and activity level, but you never know.

Secondly, keeping up a high level of activity will work as well as anything for keeping body mass low. But, and this is a big but, it's going to depend on the look and end goal you're after.

I'm again going to assume that you're not happy w/ your progress due to the fact that you're seeking to change things; so why not elaborate a bit more on what your goal is?

[PowerManDL]

Originally Posted by rixatrix

Lots of cardio + low cal + easy weights = coal.
HIIT + more food + merciless weight workouts = diamond.

Give it a try before you decide it's not for you.

Be careful with hasty generalizations.

You could just as easily re-state those as

Lots of cardio + low cal + easy weights = pro bodybuilder
HIIT + more food + merciless weight workouts = overtrained and injured

There's nuances here in play besides generalized recommendations; further, there's ways to mix and match things so that each group isn't necessarily exclusive to the other.

[rixatrix]

Originally Posted by PowerManDL

Be careful with hasty generalizations.

You could just as easily re-state those as

Lots of cardio + low cal + easy weights = pro bodybuilder
HIIT + more food + merciless weight workouts = overtrained and injured

There's nuances here in play besides generalized recommendations; further, there's ways to mix and match things so that each group isn't necessarily exclusive to the other.

I apologize for the over-generalization. You're right, every plan can be seen different ways.

So here's my point, in as plain of language as I can:

1200 is the rock-bottom calorie limit suggested by most weight books. And it's the rock-bottom limit suggested for people who get no activity.

She's been at this level, she says, for four years. But why? Probably because she's not seeing the results she wants to see. Add to that the weight workouts and cardio she says she's been doing, and you get someone who's ingesting the MINIMUM amount of calories she needs AND working her tail off in the gym.

So my first thoughts are these -
1) Maybe she's not working as hard as she says.
2) Maybe she's not using her time as effectively as she could be - and switching to heavy weights and less cardio may suit her goals better.
3) Maybe her body has adapted to this incredibly low calorie count and stalled any weight loss in an effort to stay alive.
4) This amount of food is not enough to provide proper nourishment - vitamins, minerals, macro nutrients. I would hope I would get more calories even in a coma than 1200 a day. (Incidentally, I have a friend who's doing this stupid starvation diet, and to prove a point, I did a little research on what the Jews were fed in concentration camps during the Holocaust. I saw anywhere between 800 calories a day to 1300 calories a day - for otherwise healthy men, laboring day in and day out. Forgive me, but anything even approximating this calorie range gives me the creeps.)

And my solutions are these -
1) Give NROL4W a try.
2) Do as the book says and eat at their prescribed maintenance to see what happens.
3) Resist the urge to add loads of steady-state cardio until you see how the plan works on its own - i.e. at least a month.

There's evidence all over this message board that Alwyn's program works for women who want to get stronger, carry less fat, and see their muscles.

All while doing less cardio or different cardio than your typical gym bunny.

[PowerManDL]

Originally Posted by rixatrix

I apologize for the over-generalization. You're right, every plan can be seen different ways.

So here's my point, in as plain of language as I can:

1200 is the rock-bottom calorie limit suggested by most weight books. And it's the rock-bottom limit suggested for people who get no activity.

She's been at this level, she says, for four years. But why? Probably because she's not seeing the results she wants to see. Add to that the weight workouts and cardio she says she's been doing, and you get someone who's ingesting the MINIMUM amount of calories she needs AND working her tail off in the gym.

So my first thoughts are these -
1) Maybe she's not working as hard as she says.
2) Maybe she's not using her time as effectively as she could be - and switching to heavy weights and less cardio may suit her goals better.
3) Maybe her body has adapted to this incredibly low calorie count and stalled any weight loss in an effort to stay alive.
4) This amount of food is not enough to provide proper nourishment - vitamins, minerals, macro nutrients. I would hope I would get more calories even in a coma than 1200 a day. (Incidentally, I have a friend who's doing this stupid starvation diet, and to prove a point, I did a little research on what the Jews were fed in concentration camps during the Holocaust. I saw anywhere between 800 calories a day to 1300 calories a day - for otherwise healthy men, laboring day in and day out. Forgive me, but anything even approximating this calorie range gives me the creeps.)

You're basing this on a lot of assumptions, though. Until we have more information about her it's a bit presumptuous to start making concrete suggestions.

There's evidence all over this message board that Alwyn's program works for women who want to get stronger, carry less fat, and see their muscles.

All while doing less cardio or different cardio than your typical gym bunny.

This is true enough, however, there are still caveats.

Low intensity cardio is not the enemy, and in fact some people, women especially, can benefit from greater volumes of "activity" in order to maintain a given level of leanness. She may well be one of these.

Try this with HIIT and weight workouts and you're asking for problems. Regular LISS work can do the job w/o overstressing an already taxed body; I've used it with more than one female figure competitor to good result.

Again, this is why I asked for her current size and her current goals. Without knowing where she is currently and what she wants, it's premature to simply recommend cookie-cutter suggestions. This is not a knock against the NROL4W ideology or workouts; it's a matter of individualizing things for given needs.

[baffled111]

I'd also add that her age makes a big difference, as does whether or not she's ever been obese. There is some evidence that suggests formerly obese people maintain on fewer calories than people who have never been obese.

[femi]

Dear rixatrix and PowerManDL,

I will give you both a short history of my stats and fitness level. I am 28 yrs old, 5'4 and approx. 130 pounds. For the past several years I have been at about 110 pounds. I had a very traumatic past year and sought comfort in food = extra 20lbs on me. (During this time of weight gain I continued my 5-6 day at the gym schedule so you can imagine the abundance of calorie consumption). I have pretty much gotten the eating under control now.
My fitness level is great. I trained for a marathon last year. I have seized running for the time being. I lift pretty heavy. Shoulder press - 15/20lbs, Deadlifts - 70/80lbs. Believe me, I am not scared of heavy weights. I usually do 30 min lift/30 min cardio 3 x a week. Then I do 2 - 1 hour cardio sessions on other days.
I understand from the low cal intake (which kept me very trim and my ideal) was not the best my body and metabolism. Being hungry all the time is not fun. So I have come to grips with that 110lb figure is in the past. My goal is to loose 10-15 lbs of fat and scuplt my body.

So what do you both think? Cardio yes? If so how much and when? Also what do you suggest as a good calorie range to obtain this goal? I am leaning more towards 1500 but 1700 may be more ideal.

Thanks for your thoughts!!!!

[PowerManDL]

Personally, I'd lean towards you doing the NROL program, myself; esp. since you came asking about it. I don't want you to get the wrong idea and think I was discouraging you. Just taht there were some red flags in your post that I wanted clarification before urging you into something.

The caveat would be that you should gradually increase calories and break yourself into any higher-intensity forms of cardio.

At 130 lbs, 1200 cals is a bit on the low side of things; 10 cals/lb is roughly BMR, give or take, so that's probably about where you should be for losses. However, considering you've been a marathoner and used to high levels of activity, that needs to be accounted for. Also, you're tiny, which makes a difference too.

Make gradual adjustments in the calories, slowly sub in some higher intensity work in place of the high volumes you've been used to (but I wouldn't drop it entirely; remember that for all the arguments of sprinters being more muscular than marathoners, they still do high volumes of low to moderate intensity cardio too, with the actual sprinting being fairly limited), and otherwise place more emphasis on the strength workouts.

I think for your goals that'd give you the better bang for the buck.

[femi]

PowerManDL,

Thanks for the suggestion. I figured cutting out cardio would not be the best thing for me.

Monday - lift/HIIT
Tuesday- Off
Wed - lift/HIIT
Thur - LISS
Friday - off
Sat - Lift/HIIT

Good u think?

[PowerManDL]

The only problem w/ HIIT is that it's a stressful modality in itself. With the kind of calories you're taking it, I'd limit it to once a week, if that, for the time being. HIIT is not something to just haphazardly throw into a program w/o consideration. With weight training 3x/week as well, I'd monitor the volume for sure.

In your case I've found extensive tempo runs to be a good compromise of intensity and volume of work, w/o over-taxing a calorie-deprived system.