I'm so hungry...

[jessie]

I picked up NROL because I had been doing the same lifting workout week after week. I'm starting to see incredible strength, but here are challenges:

What I'm finding is...

1. I lift at lunch. So if I eat meal 1 at 630am, meal 2 at 930am.. and I'm lifting at noon, when should I eat my next meal? Before or after lifting? I'm usually hungry by noon, but then I'm usually hungry again after I come back from lifting, too. I started tracking my eating this week to see if maybe my morning meals are lacking some oomph.

2. Besides lifting, I also love to do spinning, swimming, kickboxing and running during the week. I'm an aspiring triathlete, and I feel so much stronger in the water than ever before. Is it okay to do all these activities with this program? Do I need to modify what I'm doing, or eat more?

And a phase 2 question,
3. I'm starting phase 2 next week. Does it follow the same format as Phase 1 where the reps decrease with each set of workouts or is it always 2 sets of 10 reps for all 8 workouts?


Thanks,
Stay Strong,
jess

[SpacecityPaula]

Jess

I would say about an hour before you lift drink some juice or Gatorade so you don't tank before your workouts. Then eat something after you are done. That should give you enough energy for lifting and get you through until you can eat a solid meal

[baffled111]

Yup. Definitely a snack before you head over to the gym, and then a meal once you're finished. I eat a yogurt before the gym and breakfast when I get back and it's perfect.

Stage 2: yes, just 2x10 for the entire 8 workouts.

[UConnJulie]

Originally Posted by jessie

I picked up NROL because I had been doing the same lifting workout week after week. I'm starting to see incredible strength, but here are challenges:

What I'm finding is...

1. I lift at lunch. So if I eat meal 1 at 630am, meal 2 at 930am.. and I'm lifting at noon, when should I eat my next meal? Before or after lifting? I'm usually hungry by noon, but then I'm usually hungry again after I come back from lifting, too. I started tracking my eating this week to see if maybe my morning meals are lacking some oomph.

Have a snack about 30-60 minutes before your workout (can be small, but balanced, like cottage cheese and fruit) then follow your workout with your PWO shake. And eat "lunch" within an hour or so.

2. Besides lifting, I also love to do spinning, swimming, kickboxing and running during the week. I'm an aspiring triathlete, and I feel so much stronger in the water than ever before. Is it okay to do all these activities with this program? Do I need to modify what I'm doing, or eat more?

You'll need to keep tabs on how you are feeling. If you are used to lots of activity it shouldn't be a problem, but you might need to cut back if you aren't getting enough recovery time. So make sure you get enough sleep, and definitely eat to keep you energy levels up.

And a phase 2 question,
3. I'm starting phase 2 next week. Does it follow the same format as Phase 1 where the reps decrease with each set of workouts or is it always 2 sets of 10 reps for all 8 workouts?


Thanks,
Stay Strong,
jess

It is 2x10 for all workouts.

[Mandos]

Originally Posted by jessie

I picked up NROL because I had been doing the same lifting workout week after week. I'm starting to see incredible strength, but here are challenges:

...

2. Besides lifting, I also love to do spinning, swimming, kickboxing and running during the week. I'm an aspiring triathlete, and I feel so much stronger in the water than ever before. Is it okay to do all these activities with this program? Do I need to modify what I'm doing, or eat more?

...

Thanks,
Stay Strong,
jess

If I could reformulate your question, are you asking "Is it desirable to do concurrent training?" That is, what's at play when an athelete trains for endurance adaption and strength/power adaption?

One answer is to look to NROL4W on page 233, where Lou looks at things like spinning as a recovery action. Doing some "other" stuff, not too much, can be a good way to help you recover from workouts (we make our gains not from our resistance training, but from our recovery after such training).

But when you throw in the part about aspiring triathlete, I hear you talking about true concurrent training: trying to exercise in ways that produce adaptions specific to more than one type of exercise. In this example, get stronger/more powerful and run/bike/swim longer and more endurantly.

That's a complicated question, because of contestation in research, and because the answer depends in large part on your specifics: your body and your training history.

My short answer is that endurance athletes tend to benefit from concurrent training, whereas strength/power athletes tend to retard their taining when they train concurrently. As Shannon Clarke puts it:

The second possibility on the negative effects of concurrent training is that muscle fibre hypertrophy, metabolic enzyme activity, contractile protein structure, and endogenous substrates that result from strength training are considerably different from the adaptations that take place during endurance training. When the athlete trains both forms together, the muscle is in a conflict state as it is trying to adapt to both forms of stress. However, since they are basically at opposite ends of the spectrum, it is unable to progress in the most desirable manner.

The answer to your question hinges on what you want. For someone who wants to have endurance capacity or who enjoys those activities, concurrent training is likely a good choice, provided you don't overtrain. For the person who is concerned about the health of their skeletomuscular system (and the superhot sexy look that springs from such health), concurrent training may not be the best choice.

If you want a literature survey of existing empirical research on concurrent training, here is an awesome summary.

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by Mandos

The answer to your question hinges on what you want. For someone who wants to have endurance capacity or who enjoys those activities, concurrent training is likely a good choice, provided you don't overtrain. For the person who is concerned about the health of their skeletomuscular system (and the superhot sexy look that springs from such health), concurrent training may not be the best choice.

Well said.

[jessie]

Thanks for the speedy responses.

Today I tried a small snack before lifting. Then, a shake after work out, then lunch a little bit later. Seemed to work, probably need some snack adjustments.

As for mixing strength training and endurance training, I think my body is used to it. I swam in hs and D3 in college where we had mandatory lifting 2-3x per week. Granted, it was stroke specific, but it was still in addition to pool workouts and other dry land.

I'm going for the super hot sexy ripped look. Triathlon is just a hobby, I don't want the marathon-runner super bones body at all.

[fengshway]

lisa, can you help me understand why concurrent training would NOT be healthy for the musculoskeletal system and why it would NOT result in a superhot sexy look? I know several local recreational triathletes that look awesome, well muscled and fit.

[Mandos]

Originally Posted by fengshway

lisa, can you help me understand why concurrent training would NOT be healthy for the musculoskeletal system and why it would NOT result in a superhot sexy look? I know several local recreational triathletes that look awesome, well muscled and fit.

There's a two-fold answer to this. The first part I've already pointed out: doing two types of exercises that aim for opposing adaptions results in the strength/power one loosing out. If you train for strength/power and train for endurance, in general your body will tend towards endurance adaptions*.

The second part of this is a warrant: a hidden or implied assumption that connects grounds to claims. The claim is "Endurance training will not result in a superhot sexy body," with supporting grounds being research that shows endurance training retards strength/power adaptions. What connects the claim and the grounds is the warrant many of us share, unspoken but understood: "Strong/powerful bodies are uber sexier then endurant bodies."

Warrants are a form of endoxa, not episteme. That is, they are opinions, not knowledge. You may not share that warrant, in which case, the claim wouldn't be supported for you. For many of us however, the claim is warranted, because we think that this:



is uber hotter than this:







*Research in this is not conclusive--additonally Lou cites evidence that simultaneous training may be effective.

[rixatrix]

Originally Posted by Mandos

There's a two-fold answer to this. The first part I've already pointed out: doing two types of exercises that aim for opposing adaptions results in the strength/power one loosing out. If you train for strength/power and train for endurance, in general your body will tend towards endurance adaptions*.

The second part of this is a warrant: a hidden or implied assumption that connects grounds to claims. The claim is "Endurance training will not result in a superhot sexy body," with supporting grounds being research that shows endurance training retards strength/power adaptions. What connects the claim and the grounds is the warrant many of us share, unspoken but understood: "Strong/powerful bodies are uber sexier then endurant bodies."

Warrants are a form of endoxa, not episteme. That is, they are opinions, not knowledge. You may not share that warrant, in which case, the claim wouldn't be supported for you. For many of us however, the claim is warranted, because we think that this:



is uber hotter than this:







*Research in this is not conclusive--additonally Lou cites evidence that simultaneous training may be effective.

Except some of us know that the lady in the first picture - Rachel Cosgrove, Alwyn's wife - finished an Ironman last year. But that's a great picture of her. Do you always have that just lying around?

[Mandos]

Originally Posted by rixatrix

Except some of us know that the lady in the first picture - Rachel Cosgrove, Alwyn's wife - finished an Ironman last year. But that's a great picture of her. Do you always have that just lying around?

Well, maybe I have a copy of that picture handy...

...or maybe Natalie posted a link to Rachel's article on how to get fat a couple of days ago. One of those two .


On a more serious note, good for her if concurrent training is something that works well for her. In general however, research shows that enduarance training and strength training are agonistic. From the Andrew Burne report:

-"Some studies have shown that concurrent training inhibits the development of strength and power, but does not effect the development of aerobic fitness when compared to either mode of training alone. Other studies have shown that concurrent training has no inhibitory effect on the development of strength and endurance."

-"Accordingly, the adaptive responses in skeletal muscle to strength and endurance training are different and sometimes opposite (Tanaka and Swensen 1998)."

-"Overall, the most consistent finding from concurrent training literature to emerge was that concurrent training can inhibit strength and power when compared to strength training alone (Hickson1980, Hennessy and Watson 1994, Hunter et al 1987, Kraemer et al 1995). "

As Rachel herself points out, the best way to get fat is to do aerobic exercise. Endurance training is submaximal--aerobics--writ large.