After the first workout I knew I needed to increase my weight in the squats. I did and feel great (95 to 135). I know it was way low on the first attempt just a little aprehensive about starting new. All this to bring me to my question--Is it normal to be able to lift relatively heavy in squats and only to be able to do my body weight on step-ups?
liesa
yes. a couple of reasons come to my mind - others may have even more.
Step ups there is a lot of work for balance and stabilizing muscles. Plus - you have one leg already doing twice the weight that it does in a body weight squat just because the other leg is out of the picture.
And while it's not uncommon to see someone who can squat a lot and still struggle with single-leg movements, it isn't desirable. It makes me suspect that there are some compensation patterns in your squat and those weaknesses are highlighted once you have to stand on a single leg. In a balanced system there would not be this much difference in performance.
Unilateral exercises will always be lighter than bilateral exercises and I don't know if there's ever been any way to measure by how much. But strengthening unilateral movements is an excellent way to bring the body into better muscular balance.
i am in the same situation - i can squat (and deadlift) 155 with good form and depth, but i can only do decent step-ups with 10 pound dumbbells. part of the problem is stability issues in my right ankle which sustained a very nasty sprain several years ago, but the larger (pun intended) issue is one of sheer bulk. at 255, it takes a lot to get myself onto that bench. i almost cried when i saw that step-ups didn't go away in stage two!! karen
I am interested in this question because I seem to be a bit the other way round. I am squatting with about 65lbs which is relatively low compared to a lot of you, but can do step ups with around 20lbs in each hand. I think part of the reason that I can do the step ups better is because I have done a lot of Cathe Friedrich videos in the past and she does a lot of one leg work including step-ups, and so I have had lots of practice. However I'm wondering now if I am just being too cautious on the squats and if I can manage that on one leg, I ought to be able to squat with more?
If you are doing 20 lbs with your steps, how high is your step? Have you tried a high step (a bench) and worked on not using your resting leg at all?
I am using a high step with 5 risers under it. Do you mean, not actually putting my resting leg on the floor at all? I only just touch down with the toe. I am not concerned that I can't find ways to make this exercise more difficult - I know that adding another riser would be pretty challenging and I would need to lower the weights, it's more that I am struck with the difference between this exercise for me and squats, and wondering if I need to do my squats differently. I have never done squats with more than 50lbs before this program because I didn't have a squat rack, but now I have got one so I am increasing, and it may just be that I need to build up.
On a lower step, you don't have the full ROM that a higher step provides. If you go to a high step, you would have to drop your weight. Let's say you drop to 15 lb db's. That's 30 lbs total and with high step-ups, it's a one-legged move. So, that sounds about right to me.
However, for me, if I really concentrate on NOT letting my resting leg assist on a 20" step, 10 lb db's is about it for me. My squats are at about 75-85, depending on reps.
Ruthie, I like the idea of raising the height of your step too, but I don't think that'll impact your squat all that much. My thoughts on the squats are that they are just a new lift for you. You'll build up in strength over time. Also, if you're very flexible you might have some instability issues that could limit your squat (maybe?). Just keep adding weight slowly as you feel confident to do so.
Thanks for the advice Lisa and MissJane. I'm not particularly flexible. I will continue building up with the squat.
I was planning to raise my step another 2in shortly because I haven't got much heavier dumbells. However 20in seems an awful lot - is that what I should be aiming for? Is it better to go for height over weight?
Thanks
Ruth
Thank you for the feedback. I am going deep into the squat and my step is at 20 inches. I am using 10lbs dumbbells in each hand while doing the step ups. I guess my "lovely" mass might have a little to do with it as well (230).
Thanks again for the insight- I am off to do Stage 1 4b as we speak
Liesa
[quote=Ruthie;507070]I am using a high step with 5 risers under it. Do you mean, not actually putting my resting leg on the floor at all? I only just touch down with the toe.
Is this the way it should be done, with toe just touching the floor. I bring my resting leg completely down on the floor, pause and then lift again. I find it easier to concentrate on using my working leg this way.
I also tried again tonight using a higher step, the second step on a stairway, which puts my thigh at about parallel to the floor and there is no way I can get my working left to lift me up on this height w/o at least pushing a little bit with my toes of my resting leg. I really don't see how I will ever be able to do it.....
Is this the way it should be done, with toe just touching the floor. I bring my resting leg completely down on the floor, pause and then lift again. I find it easier to concentrate on using my working leg this way.
I bring my resting leg down to the floor too. I agree--it's easier to concentrate on using my working leg this way. I make certain to flex my foot on my resting leg, and pause on the way back up just to be sure I'm not cheating.
That said, I think that either way works, as long as you are using your working leg and not your resting leg.
I am using a high step with 5 risers under it. Do you mean, not actually putting my resting leg on the floor at all? I only just touch down with the toe.
Is this the way it should be done, with toe just touching the floor. I bring my resting leg completely down on the floor, pause and then lift again. I find it easier to concentrate on using my working leg this way.
I also tried again tonight using a higher step, the second step on a stairway, which puts my thigh at about parallel to the floor and there is no way I can get my working left to lift me up on this height w/o at least pushing a little bit with my toes of my resting leg. I really don't see how I will ever be able to do it.....
Sorry I'm misleading you here - I don't "just" touch down with my toe at all - when I actually thought about how I did it I realised I just touch with my toe on top of the step but I actually step into half a squat with the back leg (although I don't put that foot flat) and then push up off that toe. I was thinking about this morning and thinking that I need to check in the book exactly what I should be doing.
I still think 20in is a bit high unless you are really tall - I measured my knee height and it's about 16in and I'm 5ft 5.
I'm trying to find a clip of how I learned to do it - if you look on collage video here Collage Search Results at "Gym style legs" and watch the clip there is a short section of them doing step ups with a resistance band. That is pretty much how I do although having a band alters it a bit. I would appreciate any comments or suggestions, now I'm getting paranoid about this exercise and I was quite happy before
Looking at the clip I think you're using too much back-leg leverage as well. As far as the height goes though, I'm with you... I'm only about 5'4" and the bench that comes to my knee is about 16inches, and I feel like it's "just right" for me if that makes sense.
Thanks for looking at the clip Littlemermaid. I have been playing around with step heights and different positions without any weights to try and understand this move better. Any higher than 16in step and I find that my knee is higher than my hip which I think is probably not right?
Doing the move as I do it now seems to give me more range of motion and works my working leg harder because it uses a lot of power to get from a slightly squatted position with weights in both hands. I feel it very strongly in the gluteal muscle of my working leg. I don't think I am using my resting leg a lot to help but it is probably more than as described in the book. I also tried just touching down with my resting toe but it felt quite jerky and not as effective, so I guess that isn't quite right either.
I would like to see a video of someone doing the move as it is supposed to be done.
Dangit! You beat me to it. =o) Good video. Oh man, he's talking about women's Q-angles! Sexy.
I've been using a lower step, too. Not sure exactly how high in inches, but it's a wooden box with tread on the top and it lives in the corner of my gym. Good to know either way is okay. Maybe I'll up the height and lower the weight for a new challenge.
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"Men are taught to apologize for their weaknesses, women for their strengths." - Lois Wyse
You will definitely feel a big difference when going to the higher step. A good difference.
And, FYI....lifting the toes REALLY does help keep that back leg from assisting.
Thanks Miss Jane, that video helped me alot. I think I am also going to go higher with the step and lower my weight, to see if I can activate my glutes and hamstrings more.
I think as mentioned somewhere that my quads are alot stronger that glutes & hs so I think I have to work on those.
In alot of the excersises, I get the impression I'm not working the back side of my legs as much as I should.
Thanks MissJane for the video links and everyone for the advice. It is much appreciated.
I have tried this exercise again today as done in the first video and with a 2in higher step (16in). I found I needed to lower my weights a little from 9kg to 8kg (about 20lb to 18lb) dumbells, but not as much as I expected. I concentrated a lot on pushing through my working leg. To be honest, I didn't find it felt that different in terms of the work. However I did rather miss the fluidity of the movement that you get by continuing down into a slightly bent back leg and then pressing back up - this way has much more of a stop start feel. Perhaps it will grow on me as I get used to it .
I liked, and hope everyone paid attention to, the info in the first link on how to determine if you've made the step too high. If you can't control your knee and it caves in toward the midline of your body, the step is too high for your strength level. That doesn't mean you shouldn't work to get stronger and move the step height up again later, but if you can't control your knee, then your glutes aren't strong enough to create the upward force necessary to move your body. Anybody who's got this problem should also be very aware of their knee position during their squats too. Make sure you knees track over your toes during step-ups and squats.
Ruthie, I want to point out that the movement you were doing before, although different from what NR4W prescribes, is a perfectly valid exercise. Cathy Friedrick looks awesome and although I've never watched any of her videos, what I saw her do in the video clip looked good (except for the word TONING that popped onto the screen at the beginning! ) It is more fluid and it is, frankly, more fun. Eric Cressey calls it a lunging step-up. I imagine you'll find a place in a future workout to include it.
BUT, the step-up style in NR4W will correct the very common quad dominance that so many women have. It's specifically chosen to build glute strength, and that's why we need a high step. It's ok if the step is even higher than your knee, if you can do it! The higher the step, the more hip action required.
Thanks for all the information and advice Lisa. I'm glad to hear I wasn't wasting my time before. Cathe generally has excellent form and in spite of the use of the word toning is by no means a wimp with the weights. In fact she is currently working on bringing out a 3 month lifting series with a total of 37 dvds, which I might consider moving onto after this program. I would really recommend any of her cardio dvds as well to anyone who wants a really good workout. In fact I'm off to do one now.
It's useful to know that it's okay to go higher with the step, I will work towards that.
Thanks again everyone for a really helpful discussion on this.
I'm glad someone posted in this thread to bump it up a little so I saw it again... After watching the video Jane posted I think I have gotten quite sloppy with these darn things and should probably decrease my weight a lot. The knee tracking thing is definitely me... so I must remedy that situation ASAP! Thansk for the reminder!
Is this normal?
- I don't "just" touch down with my toe at all - when I actually thought about how I did it I realised I just touch with my toe on top of the step but I actually step into half a squat with the back leg (although I don't put that foot flat) and then push up off that toe. I was thinking about this morning and thinking that I need to check in the book exactly what I should be doing. 
.
) It is more fluid and it is, frankly, more fun. Eric Cressey calls it a 
Linear Mode
