What to sacrifice first: Form or weight? (newbie)

[mmmsteak]

Hi all--

Newbie post here! This is the first time I've really declared dedication to a lifting regimen. I've digested the book twice, but I don't remember reading anything that answers my question (I'm sure it's there, I must've read over it or something...)

What should I sacrifice first? My form or additional weight?

I'm in Stage 1 now, workout 6 of Workout B, so I probably should've asked this question a long time ago. Any help would be appreciated!

My fitness history: Overweight until the age of 20, when I got on the South Beach Diet train with some coworkers and lost 30 lbs. Started going to the gym and was married to the elliptical. Gained the confidence to try running and have conquered a handful of 5k's. Still love pilates when I'm not in the mood to go to the gym. Have kept the 30 lbs. off and stayed healthy over the last 4 years, but have not toned up in the least, so I knew it was time to start seriously lifting. Now I'm an eager beaver trying to do too much lifting too soon and I'm scared of burning myself out.

Thanks so much in advance!
Sandra

[AnnetteW]

I can shoulder press 15 lb dumbbells with ease, but 20's are difficult. To get the use the 20's I am sacrificing my form somewhat. But I'd never get over the hump otherwise. And now I can do 3 sets of 8 with 20's (but not with ease.)

In my squats and deadlifts I finally "realized' I was sacrificing form for weight, and that it probably wasn't such a good idea on such an important exercise, and one where I could hurt myself too. So I dropped back a whole bunch, and then really concentrated on the form, to the point that it was difficult again. For instance, going all the way down for the squats.

I don't know what the pros say, but sometimes it's hard, especially as women (considering the big jump in the db weights) to get over the hump, and perhaps it's okay to sacrifice form in that case.

I'd be interested in a "real" answer though.

[rixatrix]

Originally Posted by mmmsteak

What should I sacrifice first? My form or additional weight?

Weight. Absolutely. Poor form = begging for injury.

If you're doing complete exercises with good form, the weight you use should feel difficult. I think I also remember reading in the book that, if you're slated to do 12 reps and you choose a weight that only allows you to do 10 or 11 before giving out, you should only do the 10 or 11. You've worked your muscles to the difficulty they need to be worked, and to eke out another two reps in poor form would be bad.

The added weight will come. The strength will come. Just think of how much an injury would set you back.

[LaraT]

In my opinion I would sacrifice weight over form.

[Aoife]

Sacrificing weight might injure your pride. Sacrificing your form can injure you.

If you run into problems like Annette it woud be better to do more reps with the lower weight, split your set between the higher weight and the lower weight, find a variation that is more difficult in order to breach that difference, or find a way to add less weight.

In Annette's case, she could have done the 20# for a couple reps then gone back to the 15, found some 17.5 dbs to use (they exist in smaller increments before 20#), added some plate mates to get to 17.5, or added wrist weights to get an additional pound then 2 for an in between amount.

I've had this argument many times with many people, certainly I'm no expert (or "expert"), but I can't see a reason to justify purposefully screwing with your form when all you are doing is some training. If you were in a situation in real life where you had to lift a car off your baby and needed to sacrifice form, sure. Just like you might need to gnaw your arm off to save your life. But is pride in the gym worth the risk of injury?

[rixatrix]

Originally Posted by Aoife

In Annette's case, she could have done the 20# for a couple reps then gone back to the 15...

Ah! That reminds me of something else in the book. For the plank exercise, Allwyn talks about doing it for as long as you can hold, then taking a rest and finishing. Example - If you can't hold for the required 60 seconds, doing two "sets" of 30 back-to-back.

Annette could do as many reps as possible with twenty, take a breather for fifteen seconds and push out a few more, etc. As long as she can keep that form up!

[AnnetteW]

Actually, that's what I did. I'd do what I could with the 20's then drop to the 15's. But I will admit, the form did suffer. I'm not saying it's right, just that I was aware of it.

Check out page 7 of NROL4W. The topic is "New Rule #5 - From time to time, you have to break some of the rules." That section is about form vs. weight. He says "I'd never advocate lifting with bad form. But there's more to strength training than coloring inside the lines." He goes on to talk about fear and such, and I know that I fear trying a heavier weight, to see what I can actually do. I wonder so much if I could squat that olympic bar with 2 45's on it. But I won't test myself. Same with those darn 20 lb dumbbells. I just had to do it. In fact, I know I can press the 25 lb dumbbells as one day I picked up one by mistake in one hand, a 20 in the other, and thought, "damn I'm weak in my left arm today." I can't wait to start pressing those 25's.

I know if I sit and pull pretty seated cable rows at 70 lbs my strength won't improve, but tack on a few extra pounds, pull a few non-perfect-form ones, and before I know it, I'll be stronger.

It's just how I'm feeling my body respond.

[mmmsteak]

Aha! You guys are great, thank you for your replies!

I feel like after reading your thoughts, I kind of always knew that's how it should go. I definitely need to start playing with variation in the weights and not always "coloring inside the lines".

Thanks again!

[prof41]

hi

You know I tend to agree with Annette. I will sacrifice form somewhat on certain excercises to get over the hump, like the shoulder presses.

When it comes to the squats and deadlifts, though I've been more careful. These are new excercises for me so I'm more careful and aware of risk of injury, and the weights are already alot heavier on these types of excercises. Honestly I've been going up and down with weights on these two excercises...wanting to improve then realizing I'm not doing them correctly, so back down again...this really bugs me by the way (my pride I'm sure)

Plus, when I start reading the threads on forum, it can get so detailed I know I'll never be sure if I'm correct, and then I get obsessive about it. I can never be sure if I'm absolutely correct and it sidetracks my progress.

I'm not new to lifting and I always tend to want to go heavier...I'm not saying it's OK, but there will be times when I'll try it.

[marygrace]

Originally Posted by prof41

hi

You know I tend to agree with Annette. I will sacrifice form somewhat on certain excercises to get over the hump, like the shoulder presses.

When it comes to the squats and deadlifts, though I've been more careful. These are new excercises for me so I'm more careful and aware of risk of injury, and the weights are already alot heavier on these types of excercises. Honestly I've been going up and down with weights on these two excercises...wanting to improve then realizing I'm not doing them correctly, so back down again...this really bugs me by the way (my pride I'm sure)

I agree with this as well. When I was transitioning to real pushups, I know I wasn't doing them completely perfect at first, but just really wanted to stop using an incline. Eventually, I got it down. But when I tried to increase my weight too quickly with the deadlifts, my form got really bad, and my back was in serious pain for a couple of days. I backed off the weight and worked on my form, and now and doing heavier weights again without pain.

[UConnJulie]

There are better ways to get over a hump than sacrificing form. For example, using the shoulder press, rather than letting form break down, maybe on the last few you have to add in a little dip with your legs and let the momentum of the legs drive the weights up (like a push press). This way you are still using good form so as to avoid injury, yet are challenging your muscles. Same with the planks or push ups or any other exercise. Find a safe variation to drop down to to allow you to progress. Bad form is what keeps people like me in business. JMO.

[mel]

Absolutely do not sacrifice form. I have done it. I have been injured. It will set you back. There are other ways to push through a weight plateau and sacrificing form will at the least lead to bad habits and at the worst, lead to injuries causing minor or even major setbacks in training.

Early on in my learning process, I was working on dead lifts. It felt soooo good to be lifting heavy, so I kept going up, paying more attention to weight than form. Eventually, I tried for a max pull, rounding my back to haul the weight up. I got the lift. I also injured myself for 3 months, set myself almost back to zero on dead lifts, and gave myself a mental block on heavy weight with dead lifts I'm still working through. It simply isn't worth it.

My favorite way to get through these plateaus is to split set. If I'm stuck in between two weights, I'll do as many reps at the higher weight that I can with good form and then drop down and finish the set with the lighter weight. Right now I'm working on this with shoulder presses.

Another way to push through a plateau is to increase the volume of the exercise you are set on. My husband swears by this. What it means is just throwing in an extra set of that exercise at the end of your workout, or beginning. or on an off day. Not at heavy weight so much, but just doing them. He was really stuck on pullups, but then he started a program that has pull ups multiple times per week. Doing this large volume was the only thing that moved him off of his plateau. His tips are not to do them to failure all the time, just do extras often, and don't try to push through the plateau on more than one exercise at a time. If you have something you really want to get better at, up the volume on it, and sooner or later, you'll be stronger, too.

There are other ways to push through a weight plateau as well, but please do not sacrifice form, ever.

mel