I am having a really hard time doing this- any suggestion on technique. I did a search for videos on it but I am still having a hard time with the form.
For me, I'll be starting this tomorrow, and I will choose a weight I can do the O/H press with, which will be much lower than I can actually squat with.
For all of you pros out there ,is it common to go down on weight for this exercise (vs. the regular squat)?
I started using the preweighted ezbar (the curved bar) instead of the olympic 45# bar...it seems easier to hold and I am able to lower my weight that way(I ' using a 40# bar and was using 70# on regular squats). I find holding that Olympic bar kills my wrists when I flip it back. Bobbie
For all of you pros out there ,is it common to go down on weight for this exercise (vs. the regular squat)?
I started using the preweighted ezbar (the curved bar) instead of the olympic 45# bar...it seems easier to hold and I am able to lower my weight that way(I ' using a 40# bar and was using 70# on regular squats). I find holding that Olympic bar kills my wrists when I flip it back. Bobbie
You are going to have to go down, unless you can press 85 lbs over your head!
This combination is also called "thrusters" - so if you are searching for video or explanations you might try that keyword. I'm sure when Lisa~ posts later today the videos will show good form (there are some bad form vids out there too <g>)
You're so right. There are a TON of bad videos out there. I'm going to post two Crossfit videos, but with the disclaimer that not all Crossfit videos are good. There are more bad ones than good ones actually. But Crossfit does a lot of thrusters, so that's where I found some good videos.
This a Crossfit instructional video for barbell thrusters. I like what he has to say about the differences in the bottom position of a back squat versus a front squat (or thruster, which is another name for the front squat to push press). In the front squat or thruster you want to sit down between your ankles more than back (like you do in a back squat). His demonstrations are good. He also mentions a good starting grip width as being “thumb-length from the smooth.” That might be just right for a guy with wider shoulders, but I have narrower shoulders and my own best grip width is first fingers on the smooth part of the barbell. You want a shoulder-width grip that feels comfortable when you press overhead. So you might need to experiment with that a bit at first. YouTube - Jerry Hill's CrossFit Tip; Barbell Thruster
As far as loads, practice with something light to get the feel of the movement. The load you use for your work sets will probably be slightly more than whatever you used for your DB OH press in Stage 1. You can push press more than you can standing overhead press, and you can put up more weight with a barbell than you can with two DBs. So if you were using the 15's for your DB OH press in Stage 1 (30 lb total), then try a 35 lb preset bar or maybe even the unloaded 45 lb Olympic bar for your first work set. Adjust from there.
The guy in the instructional video does a Turkish get-up at the end of the video, just to show off. He does it with his loaded barbell, which is awesome! But we don't have to do that.
Lisa~: I have some questions based on looking at these videos and what I'm reading in the book.
In the book it says when you straighten up you use the momentum to rise on your toes. I didn't see either one of them do this. How high up on your toes are you supposed to rise?
Also, in the book the way this move is described, it looks to me like your elbows are supposed to be up in the squat portion then lowered during the thrust portion. Is this correct or is that just for taking the bar off the rack?
Finally, in the book it says to pause at the top then lower bar to shoulders then immediately descend. So I took this to mean drop heels to ground and lower bar to shoulders then begin descent. Is this accurate?
Should I be aiming for a tight or limber grip on the bar at the point it rolls down to my palm?
Tracey
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1. In both videos the guys are coming up very slightly onto their toes. In the first video he only rises onto his toes for some reps. At the end of Jerry Hill's video his feet aren't in the picture, but he's coming up just slightly onto his toes to push overhead. How far you come up onto your toes is up to you. The idea is to make it feel powerful, like you're about to jump. The heavier the load, the more you'll tend to push up onto your toes. To illustrate that point, here's a video with some ok form and some pretty bad form. Notice how the guy puts the bar up and puts 95 lb up without coming onto his toes. When the load gets really heavy, he's on his toes. The girl looks better (isn't that always how it is? ) but she's scooping her front squat pretty badly. YouTube - Crossfit Barbell Thrusters
2. In just a front squat, when you're not going to push overhead immediately, you should keep your elbows high throughout the movement. Any front squat is going to be executed better with high elbows (and therefore better upper back position). When Olympic lifters clean and jerk, they execute the clean/front squat and then stop. They shift their hands as they jerk the weight overhead. (If you really want to see an example of this, you can look at our own Ryan's competition video. His clean and jerk is at the very end of the video: YouTube - Me Snatching 88kg and C&J 105kg)
For a thruster it's easier to keep the momentum up if I've already got the barbell in place to press overhead. My grip looks more like Jerry Hill's (at least I think it does!). I know my elbows don't stay as high as they do when I front squat heavier loads with a slower pace. So I guess the answer is to keep your elbows as high as you can during the front squat and still be able to go directly into your push press. If your elbows are too low, you'll lose the front squat forward.
3. Your heels will hit the ground when you catch the push press overhead. Lower the bar to your shoulders under control. This is the start/finish position. If you need a breather, this is where you take it. But, yes, go immediately into the next rep if possible.
4. Use a loose grip with the bar in your fingers during the front squat, shifting to a firm grip with the bar on the base of your palm as you push overhead. The best push point (for any pushing exercise: bench press, push-up, overhead presses, etc.) is from the fat muscular spot on the base of the palm away from the thumb (right at the top of the ulna). If you can shift the bar to that push point, you'll get the most power overhead. Some of my reps today hit that just right, some had the bar up in my palm a bit more (not intentionally!). It's hard to perfect when you're trying to do multiple reps quickly.
In the book it says when you straighten up you use the momentum to rise on your toes. I didn't see either one of them do this. How high up on your toes are you supposed to rise?
On pg. 181, the fourth (rightmost) picture shows the model up on her toes with the barbell pressed over her head (assuming you're talking about the Front Squat/Push Press).
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How high up on your toes are you supposed to rise?
Re the photo in the NR4W book:
Remember that to take a photograph of that top position, they most likely had her hold still in that position. They didn't actually catch her in motion at the top of her push press. I'm guessing that she's balancing on her toes for the photo. During an actual push press she might come up that high on her toes or she might not. The photo is just illustrating the point.
For all of you pros out there ,is it common to go down on weight for this exercise (vs. the regular squat)?
Yes. Anywhere from 60% for a first timer to get used to the exercise, to 80% for someone more experienced. Though I heard the front squat weight should eventually equal out to back squat load, I'm not sure how applicible this is for all people.
Lisa, Thank you for the detailed response. Lot's to study, and I know it all will help immensely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa~
Re the photo in the NR4W book:
Remember that to take a photograph of that top position, they most likely had her hold still in that position. They didn't actually catch her in motion at the top of her push press. I'm guessing that she's balancing on her toes for the photo. During an actual push press she might come up that high on her toes or she might not. The photo is just illustrating the point.
LOL. That is probably true. However, since I had never seen this, I took them literally. And since I've had some ballet, my goal for raising up was relevé. That's been fine at home with a non-loaded small bar, but I think I would have gotten interesting real quick with the big bar.
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Thanks for that, ladies. I've been doing these for the last week or so and feeling really awkward about them. I thought going up onto my toes was part of it (for balance), but it felt awkward and I often lost balance before I got the dbs down. Thanks for clarifying.
I am going to assume that this exercise wouldn't be good for someone with shoulder problems. I haven't been doing the shoulder press for this reason (I am currently having PT for neck/shoulder issues). What would be a good substitute for this - maybe a front squat?
A push press isn't necessarily bad for someone with shoulder issues ... it depends upon the issues! If you are currently seeing a PT see if he/she is knowledgable in weight lifting and can check your form and/or offer an alternate solution.
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This article, written by Alwyn Cosgrove and Chad Waterbury, shows a front squat / push press combo. It has a 1/2 squat before the press that appears to take the place of pushing up on toes. You can clearly see the hand placement and squat:
Ok...I was playing around in the gym today to see if I could put the barbell anywhere where I could lift it for the push press exercise coming up. We don't have a squat rack and the other angled bench rack is just too low to lift from there. Is there an alternative to this exercise? Using dumbbells or something??? Thanks!
Clean it to your shoulders. A load you can push press won't be that heavy for a clean. Clean it even if your clean technique sucks. You only have to do it once at the beginning of each set.
Front Squat Push/Press
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