RMR testing showed 1300 calories needed to maintain??
I did one of those "medgem" RMR tests where you breathe into a contraption for 10 minutes. It came out to 940 which is what my body needs if I was just laying in bed all day. With lifestyle and exercise factors I only need 1320 calories or so to maintain my weight and to lose I need 1120-1240 calories and that is only for a loss of .5 per week. I am so upset but explains why I have gained 15 pounds on 1400-1500 cals per day. So obviously this is much lower than what is recommended in the book. I just don't know how I will have the energy to do the workouts on 1200 calories a day?
I need to lose 10-15 lbs to be at a good weight for my height (5'2)
The range in the book is just a guideline, probably based on averages of many women in the same height range as you. Trust your test readings and trust your body - if you were gaining weight on 1400 calories, don't just keep doing the same thing. Let me ask you a question - have you been a chronic dieter? Yo-yo dieting could explain why your RMR is low. Regardless of why it's low, you have a goal (or a couple of goals) - to be fit and healthy. You probably shouldn't cut calories from what you're eating to maintain. Rather, I'd say you should work out hard, lift weights, try to build muscle (which will increase your RMR) and do some extra cardio. Burn as many calories as you can, rather then cutting them from your diet. Food isn't just a means for weight loss, remember. You get vitamins and nutrients from what you eat, so cutting calories too low means you compromise your health, aside from your weight.
How else does your body respond to feedings and exercise? Do you have a hard time putting on muscle when you're on a weight lifting program? Or do you lean toward cardio more?
I suspect you could test the lower figure by seeing if you lose 1 or 2 pounds a week, and monitor how you are feeling. At that low calorie consumption you might feel better setting a goal of 1 or 2 pounds a month. It might be safer. A number of women have had issues when their calorie and fat consumption gets to low.
How about some background. You say you've gained 15 lbs at 1400-1500 calories, but you weren't doing NROL4W during that time. What were you doing? What exercise, if any?
Have you started the NROL4W program? When? What calorie levels, etc.? Have you noticed any changes, good or bad? Fit of clothes, weight gain or loss, etc.
How about some background. You say you've gained 15 lbs at 1400-1500 calories, but you weren't doing NROL4W during that time. What were you doing? What exercise, if any?
I just finished my second week of NROL4W. Prior to that I was doing 2-3 full body weight sessions per week using many of the same exercises in the book. I did about 2 different exercises per body part (back, chest, quads, hams, abs) and lifting heavier with 3 sets of 8-10. I have had to go down in weight to get the 12-15 reps in prescribed in the first two weeks of the plan. I also do cardio 3-4 times per week either running or on a bike, a combo of HIIT, intervals, and steady state.
Have you started the NROL4W program? When? What calorie levels, etc.? Have you noticed any changes, good or bad? Fit of clothes, weight gain or loss, etc.
I have only been doing NROL4W for a short time but have been eating at 1400-1500 for a while now with the exception of over the holidays were it was probably higher. I got back to "normal" eating habits on January 1 or there abouts. The book really stresses not to eat too low (and gives a lot of credible information to back it up) I do want to at least maintain muscle (I know it is hard to lose fat/gain muscle at same time) So I don't want to under eat. My clothes feel tighter
in the last few weeks. I have been tracking cals/macros on fitday.com and very honest about what I eat. I don't think I can possibly fit any more exercise into my life. I already do about 5 hours per week plus I live and work in a city and walk everywhere, at least 2-3 miles per day.
oops my post got messed up..here is the first part of it..
I just finished my second week of NROL4W. Prior to that I was doing 2-3 full body weight sessions per week using many of the same exercises in the book. I did about 2 different exercises per body part (back, chest, quads, hams, abs) and lifting heavier with 3 sets of 8-10. I have had to go down in weight to get the 12-15 reps in prescribed in the first two weeks of the plan. I also do cardio 3-4 times per week either running or on a bike, a combo of HIIT, intervals, and steady state.
Also, the 15 pound gain has happened since June. I traveled a lot for work this summer and found it hard to stick to my normal routine, plus extra socializing, etc. I have been a yo-yo dieter/chronic dieter of the past years. I am 40 now.
I had my RMR tested a few years ago, before I started lifting weights. It was 1500 at that time. So theoretically it should be higher now that I have been lifting regularly for a few years right?
I would really question the validity of that test as some things you mentioned strike me as off. Those tests can be correct or close but only if done right. What was the exact procedure?
As for your weight gain I think you are somewhat living in denial of overeating, WHICH IS GOOD. Trust me you would rather be screwing up your diet than have a medical problem.
Can you say without a doubt that you have known the calories you have put in your body since june? I assure you a nibble here and bite there can add up, then throw in some simple water retention, little muscle gain and bam up 15 pounds. It isn't hard at all.
Watch this video ( and really take a HARD look at what you have been taking in. Answer the question about the test method as well and I can tell you if it is bogus or not.
You want it to be your fault, that means you can fix it.
LOL awesome video. I do measure and weigh everything but I have never weighed what I measure in a measuring cup. I level off the measuring cup (not have it piling over like in the video) but it looks the cup was filled less than "level" in the video. I do account for bites and tastes of things as close as I can but I am sure I am not get *everything*. I have just never had to be that careful in the past. Does age really make that much of a difference? I know they say people gain as they get older but that is usually attributed to pregnancy and not losing the weight. I have never been pregnant.
The test was done by an RD. It was an electronic device and she put on a mouthpiece and a clip on my nose. I put my mouth over the mouthpiece at clamped it shut and stayed that way for about 10 minutes. I was instructed not to eat, exercise or have caffeine prior to the test and I did none of those.
There are two kinds of measuring cups, dry and wet. If you use a wet measure and level it off, you're using too much. A wet measure has a level line below the surface and typically has a pour spout.
BTW, I've had the RMR test (bodygem) twice within a two week period. I got 1756 and 1435. Under what I think were the exact same conditions. God knows if either of those is right.
LOL awesome video. I do measure and weigh everything but I have never weighed what I measure in a measuring cup. I level off the measuring cup (not have it piling over like in the video) but it looks the cup was filled less than "level" in the video. I do account for bites and tastes of things as close as I can but I am sure I am not get *everything*.
I find that if a nutrition info box gives weight in addition to volume, which it almost always does for most foods that aren't like soups with inconsistent densities, that weighing is preferable. Volume measuring is subject to error many times, from settling (density changes) and measurer error. often a teaspoon is less than 5 grams of one thing, more than 5 grams of another thing... etc. My protein says 1 scoop servings for 30 or whatever grams, but the scoop only delivers 20 grams even when heaping.
This could be part of your problem, or not. *shrug*
When I first joined this board I had an RMR of about 1600 a day. I ate around 1400 and was barely loosing any sort of weight. My belly was storing fat. I found a personal trainer to help me and started to read the contents of this board. I am here to tell you that what is advertsed really works. I am burning now at a rate of 2400 kcals a day and eating 2000 and still loosing. I feel stronger and better than I ever did with so few cals.
Here is what I did to get to where I am now.
1. I cut down on cardio - 2x3 times a week (30-40 min) and started to lift and lift hard
2. I cleaned up my "healthy" diet. My trainer helped me with this. He cut out all things from my diet that did not really provide me with value including things I thought were pretty healthy like whole wheat pretzels. The pretzels were not bad for me but I was snacking on them instead of eating whole meals and so they ultimately were not good. Guidelines I used to come to a real clean diet.
a. Meaure everything on the scale (esp cereal cause that settles in a cup) I was actually blown away at how much I really ate when I started to get into details
b. Eat 6 times a day and only eat complete "meals" (macro ratio) each time.
c. Get protein way up there to assist in musle recovery and repair (40% or more)
d. Eat protein strategically (when you first wake up, when you go to bed and post workout esp)
e. Make sure all carbs you consume are complex
Again these are the changes I made and my guess is that you could probably benefit from some of these things as well
To change my paradigms about eating and loosing weight I set a new goal of bulking (temporarily gaining weight) for a few months. Now I am challenging my metabolism to keep up with me. And it is stepping up to the challenge and burning everything I can throw at it.
So now just 2 months later my body is totally changed. My metabolism is racing. I can feel this in that I have hunger and in that I am no longer shivering all day long. I can also feel this in my overall health.
It is as advertised. Eat more to loose weight and to get your metabolism where it needs to be. The trick is that you have to eat more of the right foods and at the right times and add the right sort of exercise. Not as easy as it sounds but definately achievable.
When I first joined this board I had an RMR of about 1600 a day. I ate around 1400 and was barely loosing any sort of weight. My belly was storing fat. I found a personal trainer to help me and started to read the contents of this board. I am here to tell you that what is advertsed really works. I am burning now at a rate of 2400 kcals a day and eating 2000 and still loosing. I feel stronger and better than I ever did with so few cals.
Here is what I did to get to where I am now.
1. I cut down on cardio - 2x3 times a week (30-40 min) and started to lift and lift hard
2. I cleaned up my "healthy" diet. My trainer helped me with this. He cut out all things from my diet that did not really provide me with value including things I thought were pretty healthy like whole wheat pretzels. The pretzels were not bad for me but I was snacking on them instead of eating whole meals and so they ultimately were not good. Guidelines I used to come to a real clean diet.
a. Meaure everything on the scale (esp cereal cause that settles in a cup) I was actually blown away at how much I really ate when I started to get into details
b. Eat 6 times a day and only eat complete "meals" (macro ratio) each time.
c. Get protein way up there to assist in musle recovery and repair (40% or more)
d. Eat protein strategically (when you first wake up, when you go to bed and post workout esp)
e. Make sure all carbs you consume are complex
Again these are the changes I made and my guess is that you could probably benefit from some of these things as well
To change my paradigms about eating and loosing weight I set a new goal of bulking (temporarily gaining weight) for a few months. Now I am challenging my metabolism to keep up with me. And it is stepping up to the challenge and burning everything I can throw at it.
So now just 2 months later my body is totally changed. My metabolism is racing. I can feel this in that I have hunger and in that I am no longer shivering all day long. I can also feel this in my overall health.
It is as advertised. Eat more to loose weight and to get your metabolism where it needs to be. The trick is that you have to eat more of the right foods and at the right times and add the right sort of exercise. Not as easy as it sounds but definately achievable.
That is really exactly what I do/eat. I have been eating "clean" for quite a long time. The only difference is I do more cardio because I am planning on doing a 2 day-200 mile bike ride this summer.
How did you know your RMR was 1600 and now 2400? Did you have the bodygem test? What suprised me is my RMR tested quite a bit lower now after three years of consistent weight lifting.
I created an excel spreadsheet that tracks my data very specifically over a given time period. If you have a way to relatively keep track of weight and bf and you can be accurat on kcals per day then you can figure out your RMR over a week or two period with some degree of accuracy based on Math. I am watching mine climb gradually over the weeks and my hunger/full pangs are reflecting the data in my excel spreadsheet. I posted a copy of this tool on one of the forums but I have updated it and would be happy to send you a copy if you PM me with your email.
My RMR was crawling when I started this program which is why I started it. I knew I needed to change some things up and really shake things up to get me back in line. I hired a trainer to make sure I was pushing as hard as I could in training while keeping me injury free and to hold me accountable to my food. I am planning on doing 100 milers this summer as well as my first marathon in the fall but right now my goal is gaining strength/muscle. I am learning that I cannot properly do both these things as they are mutually exclusive to a large degree. I had to make a decision that strength and body comp were more important and trust that my cardio type training will be improved because of my focus on overall health.
So my goal into the spring will be gain and strength and then I will switch to fat burn/cut. You might want to consider doing something drastically different from what you are doing now or you might want to consider getting even more anal retentive about tracking data to figure out where the flaw is in your system. I am 100% with Leigh on this. That 1300 number is flawed either in the way you were tested or in something that you are doing. My 1600 numnber was flawed in several things I was doing including my nice long cardio work.
BTW: I just did hill sprints for 20 min. I cannot imagine any sort of cardio training I did in the past to give me better training for a marathon then this work. I already know I can go the distance 'cause I will run 20 milers just for fun. The real work is now how to improve on that.
I upped my calories to 1400/1500 in the summer, hoping to increase my metabolism. In the past diets were always at 1100-1200 calories. I never crash dieted, I have done weight watchers a few times in the past with good results. But I am sure over time this has impacted metabolism. But all that has happened is weight gain. No magic metabolic jump like I had hoped. And all along I have been lifting heavy (at least what is heavy for me) No barbie weights here.
The gain from the increased calories makes me think I am not suffering from "eating too little" syndrome which I know can impede loss in some people.
So we are back to square one then... If you are UPPING your kcals to 1400 this summer then something is grossly wrong and you are (my dear) an under-eater especially if you are lifting. I know its hard to believe but you can diet yourself into a hole. That is what I did in the past. Let us say that your RMR is right. Well if that is so then you should probably be eating right around 2K cals on heavy workout days to give your body what it needs to repapir. Is that happening? And how about all that cardio and all the kcals that is burning. Are you accounting for that in your daily consumptions? I think not. If you really want to change then you will have to SHAKE THINGS UP, which means shaking up your current belief systems.
I'm also 5'2" and wanting to lose body fat. My calculated RMR, from the Owen's Equation in the book, is about 1200 calories. (My nifty measure-everything scale puts me at 1350.) NROLFW has me on 1900 calories, non-workout, and 2200, workout.
I ate that much this last week, did only the 3 workouts in the book, and lost 1.6 lbs of fat and gained 1 lb of muscle. (My scale measures all that, too.) I was actually scared to eat that much because I "knew" I would gain weight. All the magazines and "experts" say so. But I did it anyway, and I lost weight.
If you don't eat enough calories, your metabolism will slow down and your body will store everything you eat. That is, you'll gain weight (body fat, really) or not lose any. Doesn't matter what you lift or run. Your body goes in to survival mode.
1100-1200 calories, especially with any exercise, is much too few. Under 1200 is considered "starvation". Even 1400-1500 is probably too little if you lift heavy AND run/bike each week. (Some friends of mine hiked the Appalachian Trail a few years ago; they ate over 6,000calories per day but were still nearly emaciated when they got back.) If you work out hard, you need more energy.
And remember, your body burns your RMR calories without exercising. You don't have to exercise them off or cut them out; you just have to get out of bed.
Check out Chapter 4 in NROLFW again. They talk a lot about how calorie restriction affects your metabolism. They also talk about the Calorie Restriction Society--people who think we ought to eat fewer calories--and they'll eat a minimum of 1400 calories.
When you increase your calories, you may notice weight gain at first because your body is still in "store everything quick" mode. The hormones that encourage you to store fat are still active. You sound as if you've been eating on again/off again for a while; your body may need some time to recover from the low energy course you had it on.
Give Cassandra, Lou, and Alwyn a chance. Try their suggestions for the "maintain" phase for all of Stage I, logging exactly what you eat (including licking the spoon! Oops, caught me, Leigh) and being sure to get more protein (1 g/lb of body weight, minimum). If you aren't losing body fat, then drop 100 calories or so from the maintain phase. Remember, as NROLFW said, everyone is unique. But they also said we're not as different from everyone else as we think.
Us in the 40+ crowd, well 35+ crowd get that lovely low multiplier for daily caloric needs. Even still I'm eating 2-500 calories higher than what my previous low calorie diet was and still seeing an overall slow loss. I was, of course, surprised by this but should not have been. Half of the time while I saw this loss (about two pounds so far) I was on maintenance calories and half I took the 300 cal cut allowed for in the book. I'm pleased
Well today I measured and weighed everything. I actually found that the weight on the scale was for the cup size servings was actually a little lower than on the label (unlike in Leigh's video where the oats/PB was more). I logged everything, the 6 calories worth of vinegar I splashed on my salad. The 2 pieces of sugarless gum I chewed, one mug of black coffee. Even measured out my lettuce for my salad. I am pretty confident that I am eating 1400-1500 calories which has seemed to result in a 15 gain in the last 6-7 months.
Yesterday some of you said I maybe need to eat more. It just seems so counterintuitive and frankly I am scared. I can't fit into my clothes and can't afford a whole new wardrobe. I am approaching the upper limit for weight for my height. I hate to think I am that 1% of people that have to drastically lower calories. I read in a Lyle Mcdonald article that some women need to go to 800? That is just beyond doable IMO.
Girl you SOOOO need to take the leap and eat. Yes it is scary and it feels like shit even for some time but it is the only way out of your hole. (And I bet my next paycheck that you are not the 1%) We all think there is something wrong/special about us when in reality we are just making the same stupid mistakes that are documented all over the place. So now you have to decide what to do?
In my opinion, you need to make sure your macros are in line and get those calories up so that you can stop the cycle. If you read everything that I posted to date you will find that I am on the same path as you only about 8 weeks ahead of you. My RMR was sitting right around 1600 and I was crazy active. Now it is right at 2400 and I am still loosing weight. I went from 1400 kcals a day to 2000kcals and this week we are going to 2200kcals just to see where this ends.
I also HIGHLY recommend that you hook up with a trainer or training partner to help you gauage your workouts and to push you to really push yourself. That was a BIG part of how I shocked my body too. I did not really push myself as much as I thought I did before. Anyway, I will leave you with the words my Physical Therapist gave to me when I kept reinjuring my hamstring doing the same stupid shit.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"
Most people I have talked to say I am crazy for thinking I need to eat more. These are people who adhere to the eat less/exercise more theory so I know where they are coming from but I guess after "living" that for so many years it is hard to think it could be wrong...
I worked with a trainer in the past and feel pretty comfortable that I know how to push myself but its true a trainer can push you to your max. Its just totally not in the budget now.
Take it from someone who has eaten at 800 (and less)... it's hell. I'm pretty sure the only people who *need* to eat that little (short of, perhaps, the person who actually has a disorder) are people who have so messed up their metabolism so damn badly that then they need to go that low to still lose... and are, of course, screwing it up even more... rather than repairing it. They're the ones who just get huge again when they're "done" because they've slowed their metabolism so much.
I was a huge under-eater because I didn't know better and it got me 80 pounds down in 8 months, but still flabby and feeling like butt... stalled and tired. When I raised my calories to what I should have been eating, all of a sudden I looked AWSUM. Fat flew off, muscle got all hard and I was lookin hot.
Let me ask you something. You're afraid that what we suggest you do, eat more. But what you're already doing isn't working. What exactly do you think you have to lose?
I understand it's uber scary to go against what *seems* to be the right answer, but our bodies are so complex that what seems to be isn't always how things really are.
Dude: "My car isn't running good. What should I do. I keep feeding it gas, I got an oil change... why won't it go?"
Mechanic: "You need tires as yours are all flat."
Dude: "I'm gonna try adding more gas... I must just be low on gas... that's what my buddy said."
I'm not saying "hey, do what we tell you to and don't question us... " that's not what I mean... I'm just wondering why people aren't more willing to give something a try. They're so convinced that "dieting" should be hard and starving yourself while sweating every last ounce of water in you... And really it's rarely like that for the long-term successful people.
Aoife, I totally get what you are saying. Its like parts of my brain embrace the idea but then another scared part is like "nooooo that just can't work for you". I am sure I sound like an idiot...not wanting to do what many people say is tried and true. Even with reading the book and the excellent info in there on this topic (and knowing that something like 80% of people on traditional diets fail in the long run) I just still can't believe it will work for *me*.
The nutritionist I went to believes that the test is very accurate. So with her telling me I need to only eat 1120--1200 in order to lose that made a huge impression on me. I wish I had not taken that test LOL
Can I ask how many cals/day you are eating and how many you were eating when you saw such a big improvement in your body?
I started at 200 pounds and decided i'd eat 800 or less a day. I have recorded days of 350 calories. I did that for about 8 months. got to about 145. Looked ok, comparatively, but still flabby, even though I was lifting. all sorts of other side effects of undereating, and I doubt I could have done that if it weren't for the fact that at the time I wasn't working, going to school, or doing anything other than sleeping and working out.
I upped my calories to about 1600 to 1800 I'm 5'3"... and that's when I saw dramatic improvement in body comp. Suddenly it wasn't hard, I wasn't hungry, I was able to eat more protein (about 30%) and I only lifted like 2-3 times a week, no cardio or sometimes I'd get in a session of hiiT here and there.
So I was eating more than double, working less but more effectively, and still went from flabby to smashing.
I maintained that 125 smashing body for about 3 years on 1800-2000 calories, getting more and more cut, while still only working the equivalent of 2-3 days a week.
Since then, of course, I've started school, the tolls of eating so little early on caught up with me, I burned out, my priorities have shifted, and I managed to gain a few pounds. But I still look way better at this weight than I did when I was coming down from 200...
hell ... I'm 164 and look like I did when I was at that 145, just a 1/2 size bigger.
(sorry this looks a mess, my shift key is hating on me, apparently)
For what it's worth, I still have thoughts of... "screw it. I'm dropping my calories to 1000 for a bit... i KNOW I'll lose (because I did) and then I can repair the damage like I did last time."
If I don't eat enough I get too tired to do anything. I get cold. I get cranky. My husband wants to kill me not too kindly.
I know better. I've lived it. I have experts whom I trust greatly tell me it. I've had friends here and there tell me. I know better. Still have the thoughts though.
It makes sense... it does. eat less, move more. Eat even less, lose even more. Eat less still, lose more still. Just leads to misery.
The cold part is the part that was the worse for me about under eating. I shivered all the time if it was under 70 degrees weather. I was miserable most of the time. That is the one thing I am most grateful to repair with this new diet.
Yeah, how else can one show off their awesome guns if wearing short sleeves is just not comfortable? *grin*
LaraT - I'm with you. More than I have compunction to go into here.... Let's eat!
__________________ "My yoga class had me trembling and sweating and I feel MUCH better." - Fang
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tenacious Training and Tweaking (the A lotta Alitteration thread)
RMR testing showed 1300 calories needed to maintain??
The trick is that you have to eat more of the right foods and at the right times and add the right sort of exercise. Not as easy as it sounds but definately achievable.
for daily caloric needs. Even still I'm eating 2-500 calories higher than what my previous low calorie diet was and still seeing an overall slow loss. I was, of course, surprised by this but should not have been. Half of the time while I saw this loss (about two pounds so far) I was on maintenance calories and half I took the 300 cal cut allowed for in the book. I'm pleased 
Linear Mode
