I did "proper" squats this morning and I noticed a few things. If you guys could let me know if it sounds right/ok, that would be great.
I squatted all the way down. The main thing I noticed is that the bottom feels like a rest. Like...I could sit that way forever. Coming up was obviously the hard part, but I wanted to be sure it's supposed to feel like a "rest" at the very bottom.
The other thing I noticed from going down that far, I seemed to favor one knee on the rise motion. My right knee is messier than my left (both are a mess from years of soccer and gymnastics) so I felt like I may have been giving a bit more weight to my left leg for a second to get myself up to the parallel point. Of course I noticed this and did what I could to try to even the legs out. Hopefully that makes sense.
I will say, it hurt, in a good way mostly. But, my right knee crackles all the way down and all the way up. After these squats, my right knee feels a little tender. I'm not sure if it's just because it's something new or what. For the next A workout, with 2 less reps, I might not increase the weights and see if it's a bit better. My legs were definitely jello today though. And then I did a boxing class right afterwards!!! At least that was mostly upper body...but still...shuffling around was still hard.
Just wanted to be sure these issues w/the squats sound ok and see if anyone has any advice. Thanks!
The bottom of a squat is a very stable position, if you're able to go all the way down. So yes, it can be restful. I've had plenty of times staying down too long and being unable to come back up and just stay there, dumped the weight onto the bars, and slid out.
My knees used to crack and pop and make all sorts of disturbing noises. If you search the forums you'll find lots of questions about it. My don't so much anymore, actually due in part to squatting and whatnot.
I squatted all the way down. The main thing I noticed is that the bottom feels like a rest.
You must have gone ATG or ass to grass as they call it. Down there, you could sit all day. However, if you stay like that too long, it gets more difficult to get back up due to the stretch shortening cycle. The muscle elongates from the extreme end of ROM and loses it's elasticity.
Quote:
Like...I could sit that way forever. Coming up was obviously the hard part, but I wanted to be sure it's supposed to feel like a "rest" at the very bottom.
CAVEAT: I don't have NROL4W.
What is the tempo? Alwyn programmed a normal tempo in NROL for all the FL workout and the first HYP program, which for him is 3-1-1. That is a three count eccentric (negative or lowering), a one count pause at the end of motion and a one count concentric (positive or raise). I use count rather than second, because it's relative in my thinking.
Quote:
The other thing I noticed from going down that far, I seemed to favor one knee on the rise motion. My right knee is messier than my left (both are a mess from years of soccer and gymnastics)
What do you mean favor one knee? I used to, and probably still do to a lesser degree, displace my hip to the right on the concentric of squats. Unilateral (one sided) work helps to even it out, but it's takes some time.
What are you seeing happen when you rise?
Quote:
I will say, it hurt, in a good way mostly. But, my right knee crackles all the way down and all the way up.
Air in the joints. Hoever, make sure you read the pain correctly. IMO, it should not in any way be a debilitating or near debilitating pain during the workout. If you're limping, stop!
Quote:
After these squats, my right knee feels a little tender. I'm not sure if it's just because it's something new or what. For the next A workout, with 2 less reps, I might not increase the weights and see if it's a bit better. My legs were definitely jello today though. And then I did a boxing class right afterwards!!! At least that was mostly upper body...but still...shuffling around was still hard.
One other thing, that I'm surmising from something Berardi said in this PN book: be sure to eat enough vegetables. Protein is a collection of amino acids and as such will tilt your body's pH to the acidic side of the scale. This is actually bad for tendons, ligaments, cartilage and bone because they don't benefit from protein because they aren't muscle in any way. Vegetables add an alkaline loading that helps balance out the acidic loading of protein.
You might consider glucosamine and chondroitin. Last I heard, it's only benefit is for people who are suffering from bad knees or poor joint health.
Cynic, NR4W doesn't have a tempo that I've noticed. It doesn't get that ...complexicated. It might have something in the text that I missed, but the actual write-up of the workouts doesn't have a tempo. It prolly expects a normal tempo, but I'm guessing didn't go into it much.
I could be wrong, I've not carefully read it all yet.
You're right though. Tempos is not discussed in NR4W. It's just one of the things they seem to have chosen to leave out so that it program execution wouldn't be so complicated (along with lengthening rest times as the reps are reduced like NROL does).
The bottom of a squat is a very stable position, if you're able to go all the way down. So yes, it can be restful.
But it shouldn't be. It's not a smart idea to sit down on your calves and relax your muscles while under a load. Read this twice and think about it:
Muscular contraction unloads the joint.
So if you relax those muscles, you load the joint. Bodyweight this is no big deal. Loaded it's not smart. In addition to shifting all the load to your joints, you also lose all your power (as Cynic mentioned).
You want to descend into your squat to as low a position as you can without losing lumbar position or allowing your tailbone to tuck under. But no matter how low you go, maintain the tension in your muscles. Even a pause squat should maintain tension in the muscles (otherwise its purpose is defeated!).
So if you relax those muscles, you load the joint. Bodyweight this is no big deal. Loaded it's not smart. In addition to shifting all the load to your joints, you also lose all your power (as Cynic mentioned).
Ah, yeah. I didn't think about the medial and lateral ligaments. Without the support of the muscle, the ligaments start bearing too much of the load, something to which they're not really suited.
The other thing I noticed from going down that far, I seemed to favor one knee on the rise motion. My right knee is messier than my left (both are a mess from years of soccer and gymnastics) so I felt like I may have been giving a bit more weight to my left leg for a second to get myself up to the parallel point. Of course I noticed this and did what I could to try to even the legs out. Hopefully that makes sense.
Squat Rx #12 discusses lateral shifting of the hips during squatting (beginning at about the 4:00 mark and then to the end of the video). I hope you watch and listen to his suggestions to correct this issue. It's not desirable and will aggravate existing hip and/or knee problems. One of his corrective suggestions is high step-ups. Since step-ups are in the NR4W program already, then make them high.
There is another thread discussing mobility, and we've veered off into a discussion of being too flexible and the instability that causes. You might want to read some of the information linked from that thread too.
Sorry I'm just now getting back to this. Super busy weekend!
Quote:
Air in the joints. Hoever, make sure you read the pain correctly. IMO, it should not in any way be a debilitating or near debilitating pain during the workout. If you're limping, stop!
It didn't hurt like that at all, so that's good.
Quote:
One other thing, that I'm surmising from something Berardi said in this PN book: be sure to eat enough vegetables. Protein is a collection of amino acids and as such will tilt your body's pH to the acidic side of the scale.
I can't even tell you how many veggies I eat each day. At least 2 servings per meal I'd say. So that's about 10 servings/day. I have heard about the glucosamine though, and I think I'll add that in.
Quote:
It's not a smart idea to sit down on your calves and relax your muscles while under a load.
I'm not "letting go" at that bottom position, I just noticed how it didn't feel the same. I also realized that if I did relax, I don't think I'd ever get back up. But, this being said, I'll concentrate on this on Wed. to be extra sure I'm not really relaxing.
Quote:
It's not desirable and will aggravate existing hip and/or knee problems. One of his corrective suggestions is high step-ups. Since step-ups are in the NR4W program already, then make them high.
Squat Rx#12 was really good. Thanks for that. At least I know I don't need to video tape myself b/c I could already tell I was doing it. Also, I REALLY noticed it yesterday. Both thighs were super sore, but my left was more sore than my right. I think I just need to focus a bit more to prevent that hip movement. I do the step-ups with the program, but I do step with about 4 risers underneath. That allows for my thigh to be parallel to the ground before stepping up. Are you saying I should make it higher? I have done higher ones before (like on a bench) where my knee was above my hip. I have found that I have to practically jump to step up because if I don't, my knee really hurts. And then I really displace my hips as well. So I have only been keeping my thigh parallel and then I'm able to use all muscle to lift me up.
Also, I have noticed that my left thigh is bigger than my right. This might all stem back to breaking my femur when I was 13. I think it's pretty visible as well...but I could just be picky. I'd like to even them out of course. Maybe really concentrating on my right thigh will help???
And my final concern. I may have mentioned it before, but I really don't want giant thighs. It's already a nightmare to buy jeans! Will doing all these squats make my thighs even bigger???
Also, I've noticed in the Stage 1 of NROL4W there really aren't exercises to balance out the leg. Or...from what I feel at least. I know these are compound movements so the whole leg gets a workout, but I was thinking about what the book said. How women tend to have weaker hamstrings than quads. Shouldn't there be a more hamstring specific exercise in there? Like Romanian deadlifts or something? I think I get a better workout from RDLs than regular deadlifts. I feel it more in my back with regular deadlifts. No matter how straight I try to keep my back an by keep my shoulders back. Are deadlifts supposed to be for hams at all? Because I don't feel it in the hams. Thanks again...I know this is a novel!!!
1. Stage 1 in NROL4W is probably akin to break-in in NROL. It's no where near the heartache you'll get in the rest of the book. Enjoy the down time, it won't ever be that easy again.
2. There is a significant amount of hamstring work in the step-ups and static lunges (if those are in Stage 1) and even in the squat, once you hit the last 1/3 or so of the concentric, you're using a lot of the hamstrings.
3. I suspect the reason hamstrings are weaker in women is because they don't get as much use. Start using them, they will catch up. It's like when you have a lateral imbalance. The cure is not to work the weak side more, but rather, work in some unilateral moves. The weak side has to work harder just to move the same load as the stronger side. In time, it will balance out.
Enjoy the downtime in stage 1. It won't ever be that easy again.
I do the step-ups with the program, but I do step with about 4 risers underneath. That allows for my thigh to be parallel to the ground before stepping up. Are you saying I should make it higher? I have done higher ones before (like on a bench) where my knee was above my hip. I have found that I have to practically jump to step up because if I don't, my knee really hurts. And then I really displace my hips as well. So I have only been keeping my thigh parallel and then I'm able to use all muscle to lift me up.
I'm suggesting that you do your step-ups on as high a step as you can with good form. Your comments tell me that you already know that the higher the step, the more the hip is involved in the lift. The bench sounds like it's too high. Four risers on a Reebok step is pretty low. Just find the place that challenges your hip to control your knee's position.
Quote:
Also, I've noticed in the Stage 1 of NROL4W there really aren't exercises to balance out the leg. Or...from what I feel at least. I know these are compound movements so the whole leg gets a workout, but I was thinking about what the book said. How women tend to have weaker hamstrings than quads. Shouldn't there be a more hamstring specific exercise in there? Like Romanian deadlifts or something? I think I get a better workout from RDLs than regular deadlifts. I feel it more in my back with regular deadlifts. No matter how straight I try to keep my back an by keep my shoulders back. Are deadlifts supposed to be for hams at all? Because I don't feel it in the hams.
Each workout is balanced. Squats are bilateral quad dominant and step-ups are unilateral hip dominant. Step-ups can be more quad or more hip depending on how they are performed. We covered this topic ad nauseum. Read this one: Step ups form
Then we talked about it again, and again, and again... My plan until 1-7-07 Step-up Set Questions R U sore 2 Step-ups.... how not to cheat
How is it even possible to say so much about a step-up?
Then in workout B the conventional deadlift is bilateral hip dominant and the forward lunge is unilateral quad dominant. Conventional deadlifts are, of course, hip dominant. If you already knew how to do RDLs, then you might have better focus with that movement. But I encourage you to learn conventional deadlifts because they train the whole posterior chain and can be more heavily loaded than an RDL. You should feel them primarily in your glutes and hamstrings, but you will also feel them in your midback. Keep on working on it!
Deadlifting has been covered by a bunch of threads too. If you need those, let me know.
Great, thanks for all those links. I will keep on reading. I'm really trying to keep up with it all and read every bit on here. I think I just have a ways to go! Learning tons though. Thanks for all the advice...I'll keep at it!
Do you have any links for discussion about people worried about big thighs? And doing squats making thighs bigger? I will hunt for any advice on that! I love that all the soccer and gymnastics I have done over the years has made my thighs so strong...but I certainly don't want them any bigger. Any bigger and I'm just going to have to make my own jeans clothing line!
Reread what Lou has to say on pages 3-17. Losing any excess fat in the lower body for women usually comes slower (Lou talks about all this). Bottom line is to NOT be afraid to train your legs.
Squatting doesn't make my thighs big. eating more than maintenance does. squatting, however, makes my butt look FABU.
Exactly.
Krista Scott-Dixon has a lot of good myth-busting advice on her website. Her writing is fun to read too. Scan through the articles on her getting started page and see what strikes your interest. Then be sure to read lies in the gym, which directly addresses your question.
Women have a tendency to prefer ab work over lower body work because they think ab work will make their waists smaller and lower body work will make their legs bigger.
The only thing I've found for getting rid of lower body fat is HIITs. This trims you down like magic. The muscles become clearer and beautiful. If you think that your quads are huge, it may be because the developing muscles are pushing out the fat that exists around your upper legs.
I agree with you all, muscles in the lower body can only make women look wonderful.
I did squats again today and saw where I was moving my hips to one side. After seeing that video where he was showing how you can move your hips to either side if you're favoring a side, it was automatically apparent to me today. So, I just concentrated on moving my hips to the other side and that actually just evened it right up. I didn't over-correct or anything, it just made me go up straight. It was SUPER hard though. I also put the dumbbells up on my shoulders today and I think that really helped my form as well.
The only other thing I noticed on the up movement, I would come up a bit and then lift my butt up a bit first before finishing the rise. Still w/a straight back though. In other words, my form would slightly turn into what the bottom of a deadlift looks like before I would straighten up and rise up with a more up and down back. I have no clue if I'm explaining this correctly. I should maybe do a video and post. I have a feeling I'm lifting a bit too much weight. Even though it's very slight, I did what I could to correct it. I'd say...towards the ends of the reps it turned into this form where the beginning was just fine. So my plan was to just stick w/my current weight, watch my form and maybe just continue with this weight until the problem is completely corrected before upping the weight. I'm currently at 30lb dumbbells on each shoulder.
The other advice I took today was upping the risers on my step for the steps-ups. Now THAT hurt!!! In a good way of course. Instead of 4 I did 5 and I think that really made all the difference. I went down to 12 reps today, but stayed with my 2 20lb dumbbells since I was adding the riser. I definitely don't need more weight right now! That extra riser made a huge difference and now I think my thigh is more parallel with the floor anyway. Thanks for the help with this stuff. My next challenge to fix form will be deadlifts on Friday.
I did squats again today and saw where I was moving my hips to one side. After seeing that video where he was showing how you can move your hips to either side if you're favoring a side, it was automatically apparent to me today. So, I just concentrated on moving my hips to the other side and that actually just evened it right up. I didn't over-correct or anything, it just made me go up straight. It was SUPER hard though. I also put the dumbbells up on my shoulders today and I think that really helped my form as well.
Excellent. Good for you and that's exactly what you need to do.
Quote:
The only other thing I noticed on the up movement, I would come up a bit and then lift my butt up a bit first before finishing the rise. Still w/a straight back though. In other words, my form would slightly turn into what the bottom of a deadlift looks like before I would straighten up and rise up with a more up and down back. I have no clue if I'm explaining this correctly. I should maybe do a video and post. I have a feeling I'm lifting a bit too much weight. Even though it's very slight, I did what I could to correct it. I'd say...towards the ends of the reps it turned into this form where the beginning was just fine. So my plan was to just stick w/my current weight, watch my form and maybe just continue with this weight until the problem is completely corrected before upping the weight. I'm currently at 30lb dumbbells on each shoulder.
That's called good morning'ing the squat (lol, written GMing). You want your hips and head to rise at the same rate. Quad dominance and lack of glute strength are the cause. You're right to stay at the same load and work on form until you get it right.
There's a Squat Rx that covers this topic too: Squat Rx #2. He shows a goblet squat and you might choose to hold one heavier DB in front and do goblet squats for now to help you get your form under control. Watch your knees in the mirror too. Make sure they consistently track with your toes.
Quote:
The other advice I took today was upping the risers on my step for the steps-ups. Now THAT hurt!!! In a good way of course. Instead of 4 I did 5 and I think that really made all the difference. I went down to 12 reps today, but stayed with my 2 20lb dumbbells since I was adding the riser. I definitely don't need more weight right now! That extra riser made a huge difference and now I think my thigh is more parallel with the floor anyway. Thanks for the help with this stuff. My next challenge to fix form will be deadlifts on Friday.
See what I mean? The higher step gets you in the glutes (in a good way).
That's exactly what I was doing. Great video too. I'll use some of those techniques on my next squat day. I think I'll put my head back and see if that does the trick. It's very slight for me right now, so maybe that will fix it. I can definitely believe I have quad dominance. You should see these puppies! I can thank soccer for that!
Another squat question
Linear Mode
