Step-ups.... how not to cheat - JP Fitness Forums

Littlemermaidklb · 01-24-2008, 07:18 PM

So I've been doing the step-ups in NROL4W. I started with bodyweight, and used 5lb DBs in yesterday's workout. How do I prevent myself from using my back leg to cheat? I tried to scrunch my toes and it helped a little... but not much. I also tried to look up videos of correct form and in every single one I found, the person was obviously using their back leg to get up on the step. Any ideas how to not cheat? I know it seems like a silly question...

LT Hebert · 01-24-2008, 07:40 PM

I can't wait to hear the answer to this one. I have the same problem. The only way I can think of personally is to maybe start with a shorter bench, box or step. I was using my weight bench, but there's NO way I can manage that without cheating. My legs aren't that long. (I'm 5ft. 4 in.)

Littlemermaidklb · 01-24-2008, 07:48 PM

So am I, hehe. And the gym I go to doesn't have steps, so I had to use the bench, and it was rough and I admit I had to cheat.... I also think I use momentum....I lean over too much I think, which is also not good. Any good ideas anyone?

mrroach · 01-24-2008, 08:10 PM

Stick a thumbtack in your shoe

Other than just concentrating on not cheating, and pausing at the bottom to avoid the bounce, I don't know what you can do. If you can't avoid cheating, try switching exercises to pistols or split squats.

nutbar · 01-24-2008, 09:03 PM

I had no trouble with my back leg cheating when I was using my 10" step. Since I just started with my 18" step, though, I understand having trouble "turning off" the back leg. What I've found (so far -- but I'm just getting started on that higher step) to help is:

I put the working leg on the step, just barely start to step -- just enough to put pressure on that working heal that's on the step, then pause for a tiny split second to let the back leg go slack, then resume the stepping. It's taking some major brain power to focus on all of that through each step. LOL The pause is VERY tiny, no more than one second, but it worked for me anyway.

Emoore · 01-24-2008, 09:21 PM

On your non-working leg, focus on keeping your foot flexed, that is, with the toes pointing up. The second you leave the ground, pull your toes up towards your shin. You can't push off with that foot while your toes are pointing up towards your shin.

stingo · 01-24-2008, 09:21 PM

Have you tried raising the toes on the back foot when pushing up with the foot that's on the step/riser.

stingo · 01-24-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emoore

On your non-working leg, focus on keeping your foot flexed, that is, with the toes pointing up. The second you leave the ground, pull your toes up towards your shin. You can't push off with that foot while your toes are pointing up towards your shin.

Deja-vu all over again.

Aoife · 01-24-2008, 11:22 PM

Another option could be to do them in reverse. Get up on the step with both legs. Take your working leg, planted firmly on the step. Move your non-working leg off the step. Lower down till you *almost* touch the ground, come back up. Set foot down a sec to rest. Repeat.

Basically, instead of doing concentric then eccentric, you're doing eccentric then concentric. Your leg can't help you if it never touches down to.

Personally, I don't have any problem doing them cuz I purposfully squnch my buns and force myself up... stopping just a sec after liftoff if I think my lower leg helped at all, again removing any help because it's no longer on the ground and able to push off. Basically, what nutbar said. (yes, I did say this just to be able to use the phrase "squnch my buns")

Littlemermaidklb · 01-25-2008, 06:52 AM

Thanks guys! All great advice! I'll try pausing first and if that doesn't work for me I'll try them backwards. It's not gonna work anything differently if I do them backwards right?

Natalia · 01-25-2008, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LT Hebert

I can't wait to hear the answer to this one. I have the same problem. The only way I can think of personally is to maybe start with a shorter bench, box or step. I was using my weight bench, but there's NO way I can manage that without cheating. My legs aren't that long. (I'm 5ft. 4 in.)

Houma, La???? Hey, that was neck of the woods for some time! My mom-in-law lives there. Small world.

As far as original post:

Personally, I just pretend my non-working leg is paralyzed, and I just GOTTA get on that step! Works for me.

Susan4 · 01-25-2008, 07:08 AM

I've been struggling with this too. I remembered something from my Idaho fire trip last summer climbing those mountains, when you take a really high step and your back leg can't help at all cause you can't get leverage on it that extended, then you learn the feeling of a concentrated hard single leg step. Before you take it you kinda stop and have to think on it a sec 'cause you just know it's all gonna be on one leg (and ya really don't wanna fall!). So I'll try to do a few of those BW just to 'remember' the feeling, that might help with the cheating on the lower steps with weight.

I don't know if I made any sense there or not LOL.

I like the backwards idea too, I'll give that a try.

Aoife · 01-25-2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Littlemermaidklb

Thanks guys! All great advice! I'll try pausing first and if that doesn't work for me I'll try them backwards. It's not gonna work anything differently if I do them backwards right?

It changes a bit, but not really in a way that is different. Think about it... squats, bench press, etc... many exercises work this way. It can change your CNS response to the exercise, in the same way that pin presses are harder to do than bench presses because in the bench press you've already alerted your CNS to the weight it's about to deal with and it manages to have an easier time of it... but other than that shouldn't be much different. Someone else can prolly explain the CNS thing better than me. Understand it I do, explain it I cannot.

J Stankowski · 01-25-2008, 08:51 AM

One thing worth considering aside from what you "feel" is what you DO during the movement.

I would also use the cue of "don't push off your back/non-working leg" to convey the idea that what I actually WANT is to see the upper/working leg and hip maintain a reasonable level of control (resisting internal rotation of the femur, or what I refer to as "bambi learning to walk") throughout the movement.

So if you have a mirror or training partner to provide feedback, as long as your working leg isn't buckling inward, you're probably doing things right.

Also, assuming that AC and I still share some basic understanding of training (although I'll still continue to argue static stretching with ya' Alwyn!), and if I'm interpreting the core concepts of the book correctly, the goal isn't to completely isolate anything...

Spinal flexion and the potential for excessive lumbar rotation (due to the single leg nature of the exercise) while FATIGUED and LOADED comes with it's own degree of risk. This isn't to say it's a 'bad' exercise by any means, but taking the 'spring' out of your back and back leg would also serve to minimize risk of injury during the transition from eccentric to concentric at the bottom of the movement.
(kind of like looking both ways before you cross the street minimizes your risk of being run over by a bus, but there's STILL going to be a risk of slipping, tripping or being hit by a meteorite)

... but then again, maybe I'm just over-complicating things.

-JS-

Lisa~ · 01-25-2008, 11:00 AM

Thanks for stopping by Joe!

I like what Joe said. I like what Susan said about climbing (that's exactly what we're attempting to do!). I like Aoife's suggestion to step backwards off the box (Mike Robertson uses a similar movement in Bulletproof Knees and calls it a step-down).

jessica1228 · 01-25-2008, 11:44 AM

My problem isn't so much using the back leg, but sometimes I find that the leg I step up with is a bit wobbly. I always get up, but sometimes I feel like it is almost buckling for a split second before I get it extended all of the way. I try to counteract this by really focusing on pushing through my heels, but sometimes I can't help it.

Am I making the exercise less effective this way?

missjane · 01-25-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessica1228

My problem isn't so much using the back leg, but sometimes I find that the leg I step up with is a bit wobbly. I always get up, but sometimes I feel like it is almost buckling for a split second before I get it extended all of the way. I try to counteract this by really focusing on pushing through my heels, but sometimes I can't help it.

Am I making the exercise less effective this way?

Are you using DB's? If so, maybe drop down to BW only until your form is on.