I am about to enter Stage 2. My eating has been pretty good, I'd say I've been staying 85% clean and following the program in the book fairly well. The first week I did drop a fast 5 pounds, but since then...nothing.
One thing I do on days I don't lift, is go to the gym and spend about 40-45 minutes doing cardio on the treadmill. It's not steady-state, but more interval workouts. I love doing either Cardio Coach or Itrain workouts from my Ipod. You get put through sprints, hill-climbs, etc. They are not true HIIT workouts, but they seem (to me) pretty close.
But, the one aspect from the book that has always stuck in my head is that long cardio can perhaps hamper your progress. I have always had the mind-set with cardio that more is better....but, with my lack of progress with losing the weight I'm wondering if maybe this may be holding me back.
I was a chronic undereater and have been striving to up the calories (still a scary concept)....and at least I'm not gaining weight....but, I really need to lose some weight.
Personally, in my own opinion, I think it really depends on your goals. For me, I lift weights to build muscle and look better. But I also do at least 3 cardio sessions a week, and it will be more once I begin tri training. Even when I'm not training for something, I still get in 3 cardio sessions for cardiovascular health. I come from a family history of smokers with lung and heart problems. As a former smoker myself, I hope that I am helping to repair some of the damage I did.
"You only ever grow as a human being if you're outside your comfort zone." ~Percy Cerutty, athletic icon
"Hard training, easy combat; easy training, hard combat" ~Marshal Suvorov, Russian General
"Jogging is very beneficial. It's good for your legs and your feet. It's also very good for the ground. It makes it feel needed." ~Charles Schulz, Peanuts
In NROL Lou talks about how if you do strength training first, then do endurance work right after on the same day, then cardio is not detrimental to your strength and muscle growth. I've been meaning to try it out, but doing cardio after a workout is rough.
I did 60 min on the Arc Trainer today and worked around 75% MHR. I use lots of different songs and though I tried to stay close to the 75% sometimes it got higher (up to 84%) and sometimes a bit lower.
It was detrimental.....
We go Two-Stepping on Wednesday nights, and my hips are sore....dancing sucked.
listen to the podcast when alwyn answers my question about marathon training. he basically said it would be possible for me to do my current program and still do well with NROL. I only run two days during the week and one long run on the weekend, which is what he recommended. alwyn doesn't seem to be as black and white about it as most trainers.
In NROL Lou talks about how if you do strength training first, then do endurance work right after on the same day, then cardio is not detrimental to your strength and muscle growth. I've been meaning to try it out, but doing cardio after a workout is rough.
I believe they called it the interference effect - where given the choice to adapt to endurance training or resistance training, it would tend to adapt to the endurance training.
__________________
Tom
No "happy hours" makes for a lot of miserable days. - Mahler
I cannot, w/o doing some googling, cite the endocrine process incited by cardio, but keep in mind this:
Look at marathon runners.
compare them to sprinters.
Although Lou calls that a fallacy in the book when he's pointing out that you can't look like a ballet dancer by doing a ballet dancer's workout, and you can't look like a supermodel by doing a supermodel's workout. Lou contends that sprinters are sprinters because their bodies are suited for sprinting, marathoners are marathoners because their bodies are suited for marathoning. They don't look like sprinters because they're successful sprinters, they're sprinters because their bodies are sprinters bodies. If that makes sense. Lou explains it better in the book than I do here.
and listen to the podcast. when we are talking about elite athletes, sure, it wouldn't make sense for a female marathoner to follow NROL 4 W. a more focused strengh training workout would be best
but for me, an overweight woman in her 40's who enjoys running marathons recreationally, and who wants to optimize body comp, he outlined a way to work on both goals at the same time.
Thank you! I wasn't really getting the usefulness of the interval training over steady state and that is a perfect mental picture of the end results.
there's another part to that answer - if you are going to spend 20 mins doing something...intervals for 20 mins would be a bigger bang for the buck than 20 mins of jogging in the "fat burning zone" - plus you probably get some after effect for post-workout calorie burning (EPOC). Intense is always better - and most people can get more intensity in a time period with intervals than they can with steady state.
I cannot, w/o doing some googling, cite the endocrine process incited by cardio, but keep in mind this:
Look at marathon runners.
compare them to sprinters.
This is excactly what my trainer said to me when I confessed to my 1 hour run this past weekend. He said I was to close my eyes and pictures my running friends composition. Then he told me to open my eyes and look at the body builders in the gym. Two different sorts of athletes with different end results. He said if I wanted to bulk I needed to start training like the people who had bulk.
Thanks for the interesting conversation my post as created! What if weight loss is your main objective? I'm trying to grasp as to why my body doesn't want to ungrasp the fat. In my mind...more cardio should help to lose it, but instead I'm not. My diet has been pretty good...but, maybe it's the diet I need to focus more on then if I"m spending to much time on cardio.
One thing I do on days I don't lift, is go to the gym and spend about 40-45 minutes doing cardio on the treadmill. It's not steady-state, but more interval workouts. I love doing either Cardio Coach or Itrain workouts from my Ipod. You get put through sprints, hill-climbs, etc. They are not true HIIT workouts, but they seem (to me) pretty close.
But, the one aspect from the book that has always stuck in my head is that long cardio can perhaps hamper your progress. I have always had the mind-set with cardio that more is better....but, with my lack of progress with losing the weight I'm wondering if maybe this may be holding me back.
What you're doing is fine. You're adding interval variations that you enjoy on non-lifting days. That's a good thing as long as your recovery can handle it (not getting weaker in the gym would be good evidence that you're recovering sufficiently).
If you go back and reread NR4W p. 23 to about the end of that chapter, the argument is for strength training instead of endurance training for better body composition. Many women are using only endurance training and they are not reaching their goals. So Lou explains metabolic perturbation (also known as afterburn, turbulence, and metabolic disturbance), which is created with anaerobic training like lifting and intervals (the harder the intervals the greater the effect). Lou also writes (p. 27):
Quote:
Now, if you actually enjoy endurance exercise, and would miss it if you couldn't do any, we don't want to discourage you from that. But Alwyn has come up with a unique way of making it more effective.
Then he goes into the intervals first followed by steady-state protocol.
Alwyn taught us in his The Hierarchy of Fat Loss article that the most effective activities for fat loss are, in order:
1. Metabolic Resistance Training
2. High Intensity Anaerobic Interval Training
3. High Intensity Aerobic Interval Training
4. Steady State High Intensity Aerobic Training
5. Steady State Low Intensity Aerobic Training
Jodi, I'd place the cardio you described into category 3, aerobic interval training.
Just about the whole of NR4W is focused on convincing you that metabolic resistance training really is number one on that list. And if you have time limitations (is there anybody who doesn't?), then choosing from the top down is the smartest and fastest way to reach your fat loss goals.
But there are other reasons to do easier types of cardio (4 and 5 on that list). Some people find them very uplifting emotionally. Someone was talking about walking their dog. That's #5 on that list, but it's a nice part of your day. Maybe everything you're doing in a day isn't focused on your fat loss goals? And that's ok.
And since someone mentioned cardiovascular health, I want to add (without elaboration and links) that you can improve your cardiovascular health with any of the above training modalities, not just endurance training.
My diet has been pretty good...but, maybe it's the diet I need to focus more on
Diet will always be the biggest factor in fat loss. Always. Some people say it's 75%, others say it's 80%, of the fat loss equation. Read that Hierarchy of Fat Loss article I linked in my last post. He starts with nutrition.
Lisa, your input on this thread is extremely informative--I have the same question as the OP because I love doing step aerobics and plan to keep doing it between my lifting workouts. Just wanted to say thanks.
I'm at work, and will read the link at home. I also want to thank Lisa for her help and advice. And everyone else in this thread! One more quick question:
Is number 2 on your list what is considered HIIT workouts?
lol cynic. yeah, but I am a recreational marathoner. my body is the body of a marathoner, and NO ONE would ever accuse me of being a concentration camp prisoner, lol.
I think that alwyn would have had very different advice for me if I had told him I was a 5' 7" 105 pound marathoner attempting to qualify for the olympics (2:20 marathon---concentration camp prisoner look) verses me, the 5' 7" 160 pound chubby middle aged recreational marathoner looking to get leaner and run a 4:30 marathon.
Jeesh, Cynic! Do all those guys look like that? Somebody give that guy a cheeseburger. Heck, somebody give him ten cheeseburgers. I don't care if he can run for 24 hours straight, he looks like he is about to keel over and croak.
I am also going to be training for a marathon this spring/summer/fall--the marathon isn't until October. My hope is to continue with NROLW until June, but integrate running 3x/week as well (in a month or two).
While there has been a lot of discussion about it being counterproductive lifting heavy and doing endurance training, I am going to give it a try.
Hopefully, in the next 6 months (I guess only 5 now) I will get stronger, leaner and lose some body fat and then add endurance running with higher calories as well as strength training. I guess I will see what will happen.
In the past, I have always tried to lose weight while running and have limited calories. This time I hope that I will be at maintenance so that I can eat enough calories to run and lift heavy.
I have always had a dream to run a marathon, but I want to be a strong, fit runner. I am not worried about time so I definitely won't be an obsessive endurance runner.
Any tips from those who have done it would be great!
Are long cardio session really detrimental?
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