Step-up Set Questions

[DanceDiva]

I've done 1 round of Stage 1 Workout A and Workout B.

Step-up set 1: I used 2 15 lb dumbbells and an iron/steel step around Knee height (I'm 5'6"). I did the 1st leg -- at 7, I wanted to quit but finished the 15 reps. Waited about 30 seconds, then did the 2nd leg. Then waited 60 seconds and did the 15 jackknifes. This is the time in the workout that I began to sweat.

For Step-up set 2, I thought maybe I had selected a too high step, so I changed to a step that was around mid-calf height and kept the same dumbbells. Started leg 1 and didn't find it hard, however when I finished leg 2, I still found I was sweating and my heart rate was 134. And after the 60 sec rest, I only did 10 jackknifes.

I did the workout in order from A to C2.

Questions to refine next workout:
1. Should I stay with the higher step and take away the dumbbells and see if I can do both sets OR keep the dumbbells and see how many reps I can do in the 2nd set.
2. Or should I stay with the lower step and see if I can increase the dumbbell weight?
3. Am I supposed to be able to do both legs with no rest between -- therefore whatever parameters I choose, should I stay with them until I'm willing to immediately go from one leg to the next w/o pause?

Thanks

[missjane]

See about the last 10 posts of this thread!

My plan until 1-7-07

[DanceDiva]

Thanks, however, I had already read the thread mentioned, and I'm looking for a little more guidance for selecting a consistent form to stick with before I start playing with how to do step-ups. I'm not having an issue with cheating, I'm having an issue with determining what to stick with to measure progress against.

[stingo]

The method I use for step ups is to pick a platform height/weight where I can do the number of prescribed reps + 1. So if the prescription is 15 then I can do 16 but not 17. As you've indicated, getting to 15 won't be pleasant, but it'd still be doable. My personal choice would be a lower platform height/higher dumbbells to start and upgrading to a higher platform less weight later on.

[mel]

I have found that a lower height takes away from the value of the exercise. When I was struggling with them in my last program, I found it was because I had gone to heavy on the dumbells for the move. I learned that the point of the move is to work the muscles in the leg that is stepping up. That means that the less you use the secondary leg (ie for bending and pushing off) the more the primary leg has to work. So, I played with my weights until I found an amount that allowed me to not cheat with the secondary leg but also work the primary leg almost to failure. I do my step ups on a weight bench. Hope this helps,

mel

[UConnJulie]

My opinion is to go with the higher step (it should hit at about your knee) and work on form with little to no weight. When your back leg is just along for the ride, and cardiovascularly you aren't as winded doing 30 in a row (15 each leg) then you can start to increase the weight. If you use a lower step, you will shift the emphasis from the posterior chain to the quads. The idea is to let your back leg do NO work.

HTH,
Julie

[Lisa~]

I agree with the higher step, which creates a big ROM in the hip joint. Just below knee height is ideal. A standard plyo box is 18". At 5'6" that should be just right or slightly too high (depending on your leg length). Use a step as close to that ideal as you have available.

NR4W intends for you to complete the reps on your non-dominant leg and then move immediately to your dominant leg. Any single-leg work of this nature is very cardiovascularly demanding. Taking a moment to catch your breath between legs (15 seconds maybe?) is fine, but move on quickly.

You could lower your DB weight in an attempt to finish all reps in the second set, but I'm going to guess that it won't help you in that effort. It's the metabolic demand that's keeping you from finishing, not the load. If you agree with that theory, then stick with the 15's. In the second set, when you have to, catch your breath for a moment and then continue, maybe even switch legs before all your reps are done, but keep going until all reps on both legs are finished. Work up from there.

[LisaS]

are we aiming for knee-high or are we aiming for thigh horizontal - I think I've heard that as a good measure as well (and depending on your lower leg these could be different heights)

[stingo]

Hmm ok, so I was wrong - learn something new everyday. Thanks Lisa~

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by LisaS

are we aiming for knee-high or are we aiming for thigh horizontal - I think I've heard that as a good measure as well (and depending on your lower leg these could be different heights)

It's all good, you know? Higher is more difficult because it requires more mobility in the hip joint, and increases the distance traveled. Lower is acceptable if that's an appropriate difficulty level for the trainee.

Thigh parallel with the floor in the start position is a good height to use if we just must specify something. A standard plyo box is 18" and that's usually just below knee height. In many settings that's the box used no matter the height of the person, just because that's the box that's available.

[DanceDiva]

I'm glad you all have responded. I had a feeling I needed to keep the higher step. I think physically I could have continued with the other leg, however, I hadn't mentally prepared to force myself to do so.

I do think that I will however, drop the dumbbells for the next workout to see if I feel less like I have to force myself to continue. If that's the case, I'll add them back. If I still have to force myself, I'll work from that frame of reference and work up to adding weight.

[DanceDiva]

I've had my question answered, however, I just wanted to provide a quick update.

Did my Stage 1, Workout A and did both sets of step-ups with higher step, no barbell, taking 3 in/out breaths between legs. I was able to do them to the beat of the music with no problem and w/o having to make myself finish. So next workout, I'll use smaller dumbbells and go from there.

Thanks again.

[patchespal]

Originally Posted by LisaS

are we aiming for knee-high or are we aiming for thigh horizontal - I think I've heard that as a good measure as well (and depending on your lower leg these could be different heights)

I understand knee-high, but I don't understand what you mean by thigh horizontal.
Can you please explain this?

thanks

[LisaS]

Lift up your working leg - stop raising it when your thigh (line from knee to hip crease) is parallel to the ground (horizontal).
However far your heel is off the ground, that is the step height. It's just a different way of approximating a starting point. If knee-high works for you, use knee high.

[patchespal]

Gottcha! Thanks for the explanation... this I understand

[missjane]

So, as I am reading through some of the NROL4W logs, I see some are doing their step-ups on 10" or 14" steps. What muscles are they working vs. my step-ups on 20"? I *think* that the higher step is the way to go, even with just BW to start. I know I could hold on to some pretty heavy DB's if I was doing 10", but I'm not sure what the point is at that low of a height? Lisa?

[fengshway]

I am using a reebok step thing with 7 risers on each side. it is pretty high up. I was toast using 12 lb dumbells for 3 sets of 10.

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by missjane

So, as I am reading through some of the NROL4W logs, I see some are doing their step-ups on 10" or 14" steps. What muscles are they working vs. my step-ups on 20"? I *think* that the higher step is the way to go, even with just BW to start. I know I could hold on to some pretty heavy DB's if I was doing 10", but I'm not sure what the point is at that low of a height? Lisa?

If you're asking me (and not LisaS, but I bet you'd get the same answer anyway ), I have already said that I like the higher step. It requires you to work with a big ROM in the hip and that's going to develop your total hip musculature and hip control better than a lower step.

I posted the link to this thread from the NROL forum once before, but I'll post it again for those who missed it: Step ups form Jane, I know you already saw it. That was a pretty good discussion of step-ups.


OK, I'm going to qualify the rest of this post as delving into minutia. We really don't have to give this simple step-up exercise this much thought. But, if you really want to, I can talk about it!

Lots of new lifters aren't strong enough to drive straight up onto a high step. If you have to bend forward from the hip and push off hard with your trailing leg, then the step is too high for your strength level. Your shoulders should remain pretty much right over your hips as you step up.

A low step and big DBs will emphasize strength through a short ROM. You can really overload the muscles. That type of step-up could be useful for gaining strength in the upper thigh (quads and hams). The same muscles are working (the hip is still involved), just through a partial ROM. A high step will require more effort from the muscles around the hip to begin the motion. It'll always be harder. So a high step with big DBs would be the best of both worlds, huh?

General concepts for all single-leg work: more heel drive = more glute/hamstring, more toe drive = more quad; longer stroke (like a long forward step in a lunge) = more glute/ham, shorter stroke = more quad; bigger ROM in the hip = more difficult variation (think about a single-leg partial squat to a bench compared to a pistol). So the high step is the more difficult variation of the step-up and whether it's more quad or ham dominant will depend on your execution.

For our purposes, your best choice is a step that's as high as you can use and still perform a hip-dominant step-up with lots of heel drive from the forward leg and little assistance from the trailing leg. This movement is placed on a lifting day as a hip-dominant single-leg movement to complement a quad-dominant bilateral movement (the squat). So keep the execution hip-dominant.