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The New Rules of Lifting - The Original Based on the original book by Lou Schuler with workout programs by Alwyn Cosgrove

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Old 09-18-2009, 08:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
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After the blissful simplicity of SS, this program has me scratching my head a bit..

Questions:

1) How do warm up sets fit in for alternate sets? Do you just do warm up sets for DB incline, do your first 5x5, then do warm up sets for cable row, then do your 5x5 for that?

Maybe you don't need warm up sets for these exercises?

2) With the alternating sets, it looks like this, right?

DB incline 5x5 (60 lbs, for example)
Cable Row 5x5


90 second rest

DB incline 3x15 (40 lbs, for example)
Cable Row 3x15


30 second rest

DB incline 4x10 (50 lbs, for example)
Cable Row 4x10


60 second rest

I'm not getting what this:

workouts 1,4,7,10 5x5
workouts 2,5,8,11 3x15

3. Why does the experienced lifter only do this program 2x a week, while a novice can do it 4x a week? Because they're lifting heavier than novices?
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Old 09-18-2009, 08:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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For the alternating sets, you rest after each exercise and just alternate between the two. It's not a true superset.

For workout 1, you do 5 sets of 5. Then, down where it says workout 2, you do 3 sets of 15, then for workout 3, you do 4 sets of 10. Then, back to workout 4, and 5 sets of 5, etc., etc. You will do 24 workouts total (12 A workouts and 12 B workouts). So, alternate between workout A and workout B.
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
For workout 1, you do 5 sets of 5. Then, down where it says workout 2, you do 3 sets of 15, then for workout 3, you do 4 sets of 10. Then, back to workout 4, and 5 sets of 5, etc., etc. You will do 24 workouts total (12 A workouts and 12 B workouts). So, alternate between workout A and workout B.
Ooooh.. Ok. Got it! (I think)

So workout 1 would look like this:

DB incline 5x5 (60 lbs, for example)
Cable Row 5x5


90 second rest

DB incline 5x5
Cable Row 5x5


90 second rest

DB incline 5x5
Cable Row 5x5


90 second rest

DB incline 5x5
Cable Row 5x5

90 second rest

DB incline 5x5
Cable Row 5x5



Workout 2 would look like this:

DB incline 3x15 (40 lbs, for example)
Cable Row 3x15


30 second rest

DB incline 3x15
Cable Row 3x15


30 second rest

DB incline 3x15
Cable Row 3x15



And workout 3 would look like this:

DB incline 4x10 (45 lbs, for example)
Cable Row 4x10


60 second rest

DB incline 4x10
Cable Row 4x10


60 second rest

DB incline 4x10
Cable Row 4x10


60 second rest

DB incline 4x10
Cable Row 4x10


Right?

I have the weight examples right? It's not the same weights is it? It's what weights you can do for 5, what weights you can do for 15, and what weights you can do for 10, correct?

Am I right on my assumption for questions 1 and 3?
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
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You got the change in reps right.
You've got the change in weights right.
Quote:
For the alternating sets, you rest after each exercise and just alternate between the two. It's not a true superset.
You are still misunderstanding on the rest.
These are not supersets. They are alternating sets - as in alternating between two exercises but you get the full rest between each. Lou admits the phrasing was not very clear on this part about "full rest".

Ex 1 for reps
rest
Ex 2 ror reps
rest
repeat for number of sets

Ex 3 for reps
rest
Ex 4 for reps
rest
repeat for number of sets

etc.
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Ok, so everything I have down so far, just add rests between each set of each exercise as well..

So:

DB incline x5 (60 lbs, for example)

90 second rest

Cable Row x5

90 second rest

DB incline x5

90 second rest

Cable Row x5

90 second rest

DB incline x5

90 second rest

Cable Row x5

90 second rest

DB incline x5

90 second rest

Cable Row x5

90 second rest

DB incline x5

90 second rest

Cable Row x5


Workout 2 would look like this:

DB incline x15 (40 lbs, for example)

30 second rest

Cable Row x15

30 second rest

DB incline x15

30 second rest

Cable Row x15


30 second rest

DB incline x15

30 second rest

Cable Row x15


And workout 3 would look like this:

DB incline x10 (45 lbs, for example)

60 second rest

Cable Row x10

60 second rest

DB incline x10

60 second rest

Cable Row x10


60 second rest

DB incline x10

60 second rest

Cable Row x10

60 second rest

DB incline x10

60 second rest

Cable Row x10


Phew!!! I can see why he tried to put this in a shorter, harder to understand format.. LOL

Is this right?
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
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You know you alternate workouts A and B, right? And this is just A?
If so, then I think you've got it.
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:35 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LisaS View Post
You know you alternate workouts A and B, right? And this is just A?
If so, then I think you've got it.
This ^^

PS: Is it okay to post all the exact details like that? I know it's an NROL forum, but still. JW
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Old 09-19-2009, 01:21 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
You know you alternate workouts A and B, right?
Right.. A B A B

Just had to get my head round the alternating sets scheme..

Thanks!!

Still curious about how many of these I'm supposed to do.. 2x a week? 3x?

Do I do 12 of A and B?

Quote:
PS: Is it okay to post all the exact details like that? I know it's an NROL forum, but still. JW
Hmmm.. Good question.. I figured it was public domain..
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Old 09-19-2009, 01:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
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It's not public domain as far as I know. It's a weird fine line. We try not to violate copyright - after all we like the author(s) and don't want to take money out of their hands . But on the other hand, a dedicated seeker has only to read someone's workout log and do a little work to figure it out.
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Old 09-19-2009, 01:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
It's not public domain as far as I know.
D'ohhhh..

Can you get an admin to delete the scan, Lisa?
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:16 AM   #11 (permalink)
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lol @ copyright
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:19 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Sorry Matt, I have copyrighted lol, I will now proceed to sue your ass out of that south pacific haven for infringement.
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:20 AM   #13 (permalink)
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i'm just gonna go torrent "lol" from behind about 5 proxies so good luck bro, lol
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:22 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I will then sue the government to make torrents illegal
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Old 09-19-2009, 07:13 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dougz View Post
D'ohhhh..

Can you get an admin to delete the scan, Lisa?
You can delete the image at the link source, and it would no longer show up in the first post.

However, given that you've written out a substantial portion of it and it being written in other logs, I don't know that it matters.

I think it would be nice if you didn't scan any other pages though.
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Old 09-19-2009, 09:49 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LisaS View Post
But on the other hand, a dedicated seeker has only to read someone's workout log and do a little work to figure it out.
Yeah it's always a weird situation when you consider things like this. Still, it should be followed at least based on principle.
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Old 09-19-2009, 10:35 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
You can delete the image at the link source, and it would no longer show up in the first post
Yeah, that'd be easy enough.. I'll do it when I get home, thanks..
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Old 09-19-2009, 11:00 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Send Lou a buck and call it even.
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:03 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The way the author expressed the workout (the chart) would seem to be protected - the actual ideas not as protected. As with a recipe, the way the author writes the instructions seems to be the protected part as compared to the list of ingredients.

On the other hand, legal considerations are generally different than ethical considerations.
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:40 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I can go to the bookstore, pull out a copy, and read the same thing. Is the bookstore violating the copyright too?

Information-as-copyright just makes me laff because there's no way to DRM information. You can't "preview" it then return it to the owner.
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:58 PM   #21 (permalink)
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If that's a serious question and not rhetorical, then I'd say that the publisher who supplied the books to the seller had full knowledge of how they'd be displayed and gave consent to that browsing pre-sale use. As would a publisher who sold books to libraries. I think the case could be made that those uses are to be considered differently than scanning & posting online in a public forum.

In a similar manner, Amazon has made some "look inside" arrangements with publishers for some works and Google books is excerpting pages from books via arrangement with the publisher. But you probably know more about copyright than I do.

Whether the concepts make sense in a digital world I don't know. If the book is published I'll respect the rights notice in the text. That's an ethical decision for me to abide by the rights notice.

As far as rights and information content goes, then conventional citation norms should be followed for citing a source. And this outside of plagerism considerations for schemes or methods (I'm thinking of the bruhaha(s) earlier on this and other forums over some fitness information and marketing texts). But none of those were happening here - just a scan of a page that was properly credited to the source.
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Old 09-19-2009, 07:19 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I think the case could be made that those uses are to be considered differently than scanning & posting online in a public forum.
Only if you subscribe to the belief that the information is equal to the physical product.

But that's pretty much a legal fiction created to protect a business model. Nobody would argue that information is a "scarcity" in real terms.

Quote:
Whether the concepts make sense in a digital world I don't know. If the book is published I'll respect the rights notice in the text. That's an ethical decision for me to abide by the rights notice.
Copyright and IP law as they exist today are utterly outdated and all but irrelevant in the digital world.

Copyright as it currently exists isn't going away without a fight, but make no mistake, it's going away; your point about it being an ethical decision illustrates why.

Information isn't scarce in a digital society, and trying to emulate the copyright practices of a "print" society is tantamount to trying to fight the naval battles of the modern era with tactics that apply to Roman triremes. The paradigm has shifted and the old rules don't apply.

Any system that relies on an utterly arbitrary standard (i.e., I won't access copyrighted data online because I wouldn't do it with the physical product) falls apart because the analogy itself is flawed.

The idea would be to update the business model to reflect the new paradigm, but obviously the old guard is very reluctant to do that - which isn't news, because it happens any time a new means of distribution and production comes into effect.

Quote:
As far as rights and information content goes, then conventional citation norms should be followed for citing a source. And this outside of plagerism considerations for schemes or methods (I'm thinking of the bruhaha(s) earlier on this and other forums over some fitness information and marketing texts). But none of those were happening here - just a scan of a page that was properly credited to the source.
I'm all for credit and attribution, make no mistake. But that's a different animal from compensation-for-product, which is really what the copyright debate boils down to.

What I'm having a big chuckle about (and I mean in a global sense, from the current RIAA vs. Everyone nonsense to Google Books' current fiasco) is the notion that we can just copy-paste the current "information is a physical thing" model to the digital world, where no such restrictions apply.

"I give you this, you give me that" applies to physical products, but it's just unworkable RE: information.
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Old 09-19-2009, 07:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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*ahem*..

Not to get off topic, but...

So why does the experienced lifter only do this program 2x a week, while a novice can do it 4x a week?

Because they're lifting heavier than novices?
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