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[Thicknick33]

Hi everyone, I have been reading everyones post for a while after i purchased NROL, I love the book, but my only fear is I heard a few people say they lost muslce on the fat loss program which I am on.. I was doing heavy lifting for the last year, I am about 208 5-9 and about 16% bodyfat. I want to lose bodyfat but just want to try to minimize muscle loss after all last year of me getting stronger.. Do you think this program is good for that? or is this more focused towards "athletes" instead of the traditional "bodybuilder" physic... thanks

[chucknun]

From what I've been reading, as long as you eat enough protein you should be good. You still may lose a little bit of muscle along with the fat, but if you eat 1 gram of protein per pound of weight then you should minimize muscle loss.

[Thicknick33]

hey thanks for the reply, i read so much stuff that I get overloaded with info, . I was doing a program previously that insisted you have to "go heavy" in order to maintain the muscle and reduce the bodyfat.. The NROL seem to use "high reps" to attack fat loss.

[Thicknick33]

Well I guess the confilcting evidence that lyle mcdonald talks about is what has me confused.. any advise?

[NACHO]

From the limited amount that I know doing metabolic circuit training on a caloric deficit can lead to muscle loss but as mentioned if you are getting enough protein the loss should be minimal.

Having said that, if you're trying to lose fat and are aproaching 15% BF I don't think anyone including the authors would say the FL programs are the best way to do it.

By best, I mean fastest and easiest. If there is someone who got shredded doing the FL programs I am not aware of them. (I'm sure there is an exception somewhere)

From the research I have done when I get to where you're at these are the protocols I would consider to get down to 10-11% BF.

Alwyn Cosgrove's newest program:
http://www.warpspeedfatloss.com/index1.php

Lyle McDonald UD2:
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Diet-.../dp/0967145627

EOD (do your own research - I am still learning about this one)

Hopefully if I am wrong someone smarter and wiser will point it out.

[Chewbacca]

You spent the past year lifting heavy, forcing your body to adapt to increasingly heavier loads, and by using that stimulus you improved your strength and (i'm assuming) built yourself some muscle. Lifting heavy will keep that muscle around.

Speaking from experience, the high rep sets and short rest periods in NROL FL can be so demanding that you may sometimes end up using a weight far lighter than they are capable of lifting for the prescribed reps. When this happens you are not lifting heavy enough to effectively preserve muscle.

For example, if Elton John is used to deadlifting 315 lbs for three reps, he should be able to lift something like 260 - 270 for eight reps. However, now he's throwing in not only a supersetted exercise but also the extra challenge posed by a miniscule 30 second rest period; he might find himself without the energy (or willpower) necessary to pull even 225 on the second and third sets. While this session will no doubt be a punishing metabolic workout, there isn't a sufficient stimulus to the muscles themselves.

So, in a nutshell, i don't think there's a serious risk of muscle loss as long as you eat enough protein and continue to challenge the muscles.

If your conditioning level forces you to use much lighter weights than your muscles could handle under less stressful conditions (but for the same number of reps), consider lifting heavy for low reps once a week, only using a few sets of the basic big lifts. This way the heavy stimulus remains and your body will be encouraged to hold onto that hard-earned muscle mass.

I'm not an expert, but that's what I would do in your situation. The NROL fat loss workouts are truly awesome, give them a try. Just keep an eye on your strength levels and eat right. Losing a tiny bit of muscle in the process is just about inevitable, but you will probably look and feel so much better that it won't bother you. Also, take solace in the fact that recovering lost muscle mass is easier than building new size because you've already made the neural adaptations.

- Peace

[NACHO]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

I'm not an expert, but that's what I would do in your situation. The NROL fat loss workouts are truly awesome, give them a try. Just keep an eye on your strength levels and eat right. Losing a tiny bit of muscle in the process is just about inevitable, but you will probably look and feel so much better that it won't bother you. Also, take solace in the fact that recovering lost muscle mass is easier than building new size because you've already made the neural adaptations.

- Peace

How can he lose weight if not on a deficit? How on a deficit is he going to keep the weight up? Isn't this the classic problem for a natural lifter? At a 500 cal deficit how long will it take for him to get to 11% and how much LBM will he lose? A long time and a lot would be my guess.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by NACHO

How can he lose weight if not on a deficit? How on a deficit is he going to keep the weight up? Isn't this the classic problem for a natural lifter? At a 500 cal deficit how long will it take for him to get to 11% and how much LBM will he lose? A long time and a lot would be my guess.

You make a good point, a constant 500 cal deficit is not necessarily the quickest way to get there. And I'd bet that the programs you mentioned are excellent.

But regardless of what program people use for fat loss, one thing is certain: muscles need to be challenged, or you WILL lose mass. Switching from squatting 315 for three reps to sets of ten bodyweight squats will shrink your musculature more than any 500 cal deficit, no matter how low the protein content.

Thicknick, from your stats it sounds like you have a great deal of muscle mass, so preservation is crucial here. Just eat enough protein and challenge your muscles. If a set calls for 10 reps, you should be lifting somewhere near your ten-twelve rep max. If you find yourself too winded to do this in the FL workouts, consider throwing in a heavy day once a week.