I've been doing the NROL break-in program for 3 weeks now, and it has made it clear that the last 10 years of going to the gym has been a waste of time! My relationship with gyms has been off-and-on, start-and-stop, and I've been pretty clueless. At best, I have maintained my weight but haven't put on much muscle. The break-in program has been a ton of fun and very challenging. I'm 5'11" and 170 lbs, and somewhat lanky with poor posture.
My first mistake, as Lou bluntly points out, was avoiding the squat rack. Like he says, I never even glanced at it. In my mind, I thought it was something for people who already look amazing! It doesn't help that the treadmills all face it, giving the cardio fiends a nice view of glutes in action.
I read an older thread where a "newbie" claimed to be lifting 155 lbs on his squats during the break-in program. My reaction was "WHAT?!?" For me, 155 lbs is a long-term goal. After 3 weeks, I'm still lifting the bar (45 lbs). I probably look pathetic, but I don't really care. The first time I did squats with just the bar, I was out for 5 days, hobbling around with sore legs, hips and butt. Good times!
During the third week, I tried 65 lbs (two 10 lb plates), but couldn't get low enough with good form. So I am back to lifting just 45 lbs. Also, the squats are followed by 60 lunges, which are a little bit of torture on my legs! So I don't want to trash my legs with squats and then not be able to complete the lunges.
Is it a waste of time to move on to the next program (Fat Loss I) still only able to squat 45 lbs? Or should I add a couple of workouts to practice squats with more weight and better form?
Are there really people who start at 155 lbs?? (just kidding on that last question.)
I am also in week 3 of the break-in. I hobbled around my first week after doing the break-in but I think that it had more to do with the lunges. Whenever I start my lunges, my immediate thought is, "I hate you Alwyn!" But when I am done I feel so relieved.
To your post, 45 lbs. does seem really low for someone that is 170lbs.
What do you mean low enough with good form? IMHO, NROL is not specific enough about good form for squats and deadlifts. Check Ripptoe on youtube for some excellent videos on proper form.
Quickly though:
your feet should be a lil past shoulder width, slightly pointed out
eyes looking at the point where the wall hits the ground.
Wear flat soled shoes (not trainers think converse chuck taylors, trust me most pro lifters use chucks for squats)
Keep your heels firmly planted.
If you are doing all these things and can still only squat 45, then that's just were you are at. Just curious, how much are you deadlifting?
Elemnopee, I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one cursing during the lunges. Step-ups are another one that inspire me to invent new curses.
I am lifting 75 lbs on deadlifts, which seems to be perfect for me. The last few reps are done with a lot of willpower as I try to ignore the burning in my muscles. This is not a feeling I'm getting with squats yet. Back when I did leg presses (on a machine), I was using about 120 lbs. Clearly that exercise does not translate into squat and deadlift strength. Goodbye, leg press machine, and thanks for nothing.
My problem with squats is probably more due to confidence than strength. I use the safety bars, but am still not sure of my balance as I get low (near parallel). I sit at a desk all day every day, so my hips are probably less flexible than most people's. I hope the tightness in them lessens as I continue the program.
The Ripptoe videos are very useful, thanks! I practiced some of the tips using a broom stick, and I think the movement has clicked in my brain. Pushing up from my butt/lower back at the bottom feels much more natural and comfortable. Also, as you say, I should probably be looking slightly downward. When I try to look straight ahead as many sources instruct, I find that I struggle to keep my neck up and forget about what my hips are doing, which becomes awkward. I have a slightly slouched posture, so looking straight ahead might not be feasible for now.
Is it a waste of time to move on to the next program (Fat Loss I) still only able to squat 45 lbs?
Not at all. I started Fat Loss I at 65 for the squats, and from there added an additional 10 pounds each session. I didn't have a squat rack at the time, so was limited on how much I could hoist over my head and onto my back. More importantly I also needed to build up a better weight lifting endurance, as well as gain experience and better form. Still need to, but I'm better than I was before. And, I'm doing the "deep" squats (I think they call them Olympic squats). Currently I'm in FLII doing front squats at 115.
The one thing I would change with the Fat Loss I would have been to do 18 sessions instead of 12. The book is a little confusing on this. In the Fat Loss section it says to do 12 workouts, but in the "Eternal beginner" section it says to do 3 workouts a week for 6 weeks, for both FLI and FLII. I just think a beginner like me could easily use those extra workouts for the experience and endurance. Currently I'm doing FLII, and I'm doing 18 sessions.
Wow, as an aside, the jumping pull ups in that video are total crap. Every time I see a crossfit video I'm astounded by the terrible form and injury potential.
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Jane, I have since found some articles about ass-to-grass ("olympic squats"?) and have changed my mind about it. Lou gave me the impression that it is dead wrong in chapter 8 (of NROL original). Like he says at the outset of the book, doubt everything you read.
Elemnopee, yes it's great to be almost broken in! I just got home from doing workout A for the last time. I was able to squat 65 lbs and get down to parallel, and a bit below parallel on some reps. It feels much more comfortable now, and I can feel my muscles working much harder.
To improve my squat, I did some of what Ripptoe did in his coaching. What really helped me physically and psychologically was to hold on to a door frame and slowly lower myself as low as possible, trying to do Jane's favorite ass-to-grass squat. It's not a squat, of course, but it got me familiar with the feeling of being that low without having to worry about balance. In comparison to that, squatting to parallel doesn't feel very low anymore.
As for Crossfit, I can't criticize because they seem to get great results. But I would rather not exercise like a stark raving lunatic hopped up on two pots of coffee and trying to contain a full bladder. But that's just me.
with your squat and dl i would say that as long as you are able to finish the reps and sets you should up the weight in the next workout. thats just my take on it. its ok if you try heavier weight and can't finish all the reps as long as you are giving it an honest try. the idea isn't so much to continue doing what is already comfortable (maybe comfortable isn't the word) for you but rather to challenge the muscles. i think that at 170 lbs just the bar seems a bit low. but hey, we all have to start somewhere.
the first couple time i did BI i couldn't walk right for days either. its tough but that is how you get stronger. now i am doing the workouts and upping my weight just about every workout and i am rarely sore. you adapt. anyway, i guess what i am saying is it will hurt like hell sometimes but its a good idea to constantly push yourself. and if you can't do the bar+20 than slap on two 5 lb weights and start working from there. but either way stick with it and always try to move forward.
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Thanks, sg516. I took your advice and increased the weight in two exercises of my last workout of the break-in program today. Stupid me, I increased step-up and dumbbell shoulder presses, which are both in the same alternating set! Let's just say this was probably the most intense cardio I've ever done! I didn't think adding 10 lbs to step-ups would make a big difference, but it really winded me. I took a few minutes to rest before doing the last superset.
Once I try doing 3 sets of squats and deadlifts in fat-loss 1, I'll try increasing their weights. I'm at 65 lbs with squats, but am pretty sure I can handle more. Is it ok to use less weight in the third set if I think I need to, or should I always try to use the same weight in each set?
i try not to take a step backwards with the weight on the third set unless i am worried about injury. i just do as many reps as i can with the weight. i often surprise myself. if i don't finish all the reps in that set i just start on that weight the next time i do that workout. o and 10lbs on the step up/ shoulder press is tough.
enjoy your rest week and go in to fl1 with renewed vigor. its a tough workout. if i were you i would do the first set of bss with body weight and see how it feels before adding weight to it. the first time i did it i used weight but i didnt have the balance down and hurt my knee.
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I intend to live forever, so far so good.
Swim! Bike! Run!
1.5k!, 40k!, 10k!
Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad.
Don't worry about how much weight you are lifting. Do whatever is right for you. I am relatively weak for my size as well and was always intimidated by the free weight room, but now I really don't care what the others think, and I don't think the strong guys in there care how much I lift either.
I started with the just the 45 lb bar for the break-in squats, and at first it was a challenge just to maintain my balance and have decent form. Eventually I was able to add 5 or 10 lbs each week. Now I'm up to about 100 lbs, which still isn't a lot, but it's nice to see the improvement.
thats awesome. working up from 45 to 100 is some serious improvement. and you are absolutely right about not worrying about what others think. to thine ownself be true. as long as you know you are giving an honest 100% every time you can be proud.
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I intend to live forever, so far so good.
Swim! Bike! Run!
1.5k!, 40k!, 10k!
Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad.
My problem with squats is probably more due to confidence than strength. I use the safety bars, but am still not sure of my balance as I get low (near parallel).
Safety bars? What do you mean by safety bars? You're not using a Smith machine are you?
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Nevermind, you meant setting the bars in case you fall. As a newbie, you should find that your weights will come up quickly as your coordination and comfort level with the movement increases.
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thats awesome. working up from 45 to 100 is some serious improvement. and you are absolutely right about not worrying about what others think. to thine ownself be true. as long as you know you are giving an honest 100% every time you can be proud.
That improvement wasn't all during the break-in workouts. For the break-in workouts I progressed from 45 to 75 lbs. Then for FLI I worked up to 100. I'm now nearing the end of FLII and up to 90 lbs for the front squat.
I'm still pretty weak overall, though. For the chinups I need assistance so I put my feet on a chair that is a few feet away from the bar, and for the BSS with overhead press I am only using body weight and it is still super difficult.
I'm planning to go to Strength I next, and then probably to FLIII. That should get me through the rest of the year.
Safety bars? What do you mean by safety bars? You're not using a Smith machine are you?
I myself unfortunately have to use a smith machine for most of the year. The gym I go to while I'm at work doesn't have squat racks, it really sucks but it's also really inexpensive. I'm sure it doesn't work out the core as well, but my legs still definitely get a workout.
Thanks for the tips, sg516. I'm already familiar with the pain of the bulgarian split squats. Whoever invented that one is evil! I haven't done it in a while, so I'll definitely do it without weights.
Stumble Bum, yes I meant the bars in case I need to dump the weight. Years ago, I gave the smith machine a try for a while (for bench press), but my shoulders really hated it. Each time I used it got more painful. I don't understand what good that machine is for anything... My condo gym could reclaim precious space by getting rid of it. But people use it more than the power cage, so it's going nowhere. *sigh*
I find that my balance in many exercises is dramatically better. I'm looking forward to getting back to it!
Rippetoe's book, Starting Strength, is indispensible for learning proper squat and deadlift form. Jane, I'm surprised you didn't mention that.
As soon as I started practicing the proper form with a broomstick, my squats improved dramatically, and I moved up in weight pretty quickly.
i agree. "starting strength" should be required reading for anyone who is getting into lifting.
Quote:
That improvement wasn't all during the break-in workouts. For the break-in workouts I progressed from 45 to 75 lbs. Then for FLI I worked up to 100. I'm now nearing the end of FLII and up to 90 lbs for the front squat.
90 on front squat is good man. front squat is a harder lift than regular squat.
__________________
I intend to live forever, so far so good.
Swim! Bike! Run!
1.5k!, 40k!, 10k!
Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad.
Are there really people who start at 155 lbs?? (just kidding on that last question.)
I started the break in workout about a month or so ago, and am currently on Fat Loss 1. I'm 5'8" and currently 174lbs, skin pinch test says about 15-18% body fat.
I started my squats at about 175lbs, 2x15. I managed to push it to 200lbs, but could only make 12-13 reps second set, so I backed off to 190lbs.
That being said, the first few times I did the static lunges, I thought I was going to die. I think I was using a 50lb bar, and "about to pass out" describes how I felt afterward. Still, by the end of break-in, I was up to 65lbs and barfyness went away.
But that's me, and everyone's different. My upper body stuff is relatively poor, and now that I'm in Fat Loss 1, I find that after the first superset, my rotational lunges are a pitiful thing. Hopefully I'll get used to them. Today, I tried to do intervals right afterwards like the book says. Forget it; my lower back was VERY upset with me trying to jog.
Everyone has strengths and weaknesses, and (if I might moralize for a moment) true strength lies in relentless self-improvement. Work to expand your limits, and you win. The fact that I can squat whatever, or my ripped friend Tim can bang out pullups until Ragnarok isn't relevant to your progress, value, or success. Keep at it, practice good form, and gains will come.
Once I try doing 3 sets of squats and deadlifts in fat-loss 1, I'll try increasing their weights. I'm at 65 lbs with squats, but am pretty sure I can handle more. Is it ok to use less weight in the third set if I think I need to, or should I always try to use the same weight in each set?
NROL doesn't really cover weight progressions in the book; I'm assuming steady weight and try and get all three sets done.
FYI, my two set squat when I finished break in was [blah]. My first try at three-set squat was 90% of [blah]. That was about right. Today I did 97% of [blah] and my fifteenth rep was all anyone could hope for in terms of "almost failure, but not quite." That extra set is non-trivial, but you'll climb up quickly.
Everyone has strengths and weaknesses, and (if I might moralize for a moment) true strength lies in relentless self-improvement. Work to expand your limits, and you win. The fact that I can squat whatever, or my ripped friend Tim can bang out pullups until Ragnarok isn't relevant to your progress, value, or success. Keep at it, practice good form, and gains will come.
Thanks Douglas, I agree entirely. I'm having a lot of fun, and have been seeing improvements each time I work out. I'm into Fat-Loss 1 now, and look forward to doing squats. The technique has become familiar, and I'm sneaking extra weight plates onto the bar each time. I'm about to go down to 12-rep sets, so I'm looking forward to even more weight.
Improvement on deadlift is another story. My grip strength is a huge limitation in workouts that involve deadlifts. My gripping muscles start to burn and my grip loosens until the weight is nearly slipping out of my fingers (especially in Romanian deadlifts). Spending all day at a desk working on a computer has left my forearms weak as kittens!
Improvement on deadlift is another story. My grip strength is a huge limitation in workouts that involve deadlifts. My gripping muscles start to burn and my grip loosens until the weight is nearly slipping out of my fingers (especially in Romanian deadlifts). Spending all day at a desk working on a computer has left my forearms weak as kittens!
One note, though...I do my deadlifts with a shorter 35lb bar instead of the 45lb olympic bar. I have smaller hands, and have a better grip with the skinnier 35lb bar. Don't know what bar you use, but there's only so much one can do if you can't wrap your whole paw around it.
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One note, though...I do my deadlifts with a shorter 35lb bar instead of the 45lb olympic bar. I have smaller hands, and have a better grip with the skinnier 35lb bar. Don't know what bar you use, but there's only so much one can do if you can't wrap your whole paw around it.
My gym (in my condo) only has olympic bars, an EZ curl bar, and one that allows you to grip it with your palms facing each other (whatever that's called).
Reading other threads, I've learned that I've been doing deadlifts wrong. Since I can't use the 45 lb plates yet, the bar has been very low, just above my shoes. I've been squatting my deadlifts. So, let's hope grip becomes less of a problem when I do deadlift from the correct height.
Squat Weight Question from a Newbie
So, let's hope grip becomes less of a problem when I do deadlift from the correct height.
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