I just recently finished New Rules - and bought The Book of Muscle as my next read. I'm doing quite well with the programs in the back of the book and I'm trying to focus more on improving my diet but I'm a little confused. I know for hypertrophy you're supposed to increase you're calories by about 500 to build muscle but for the strength programs do you still need extra calories or is maintenance enough? I'm not sure because strength is more neural adaptation compared to hypertrophy which is more metabolic. I gained about 10lbs during the hypertrophy phases and I want to increase muscle size through strength but if it requires more calories I don't want to get fatter at the same time. Can anybody help clear this up for me?
I know for hypertrophy you're supposed to increase you're calories by about 500 to build muscle but for the strength programs do you still need extra calories or is maintenance enough?
From what I understand (and give me a slap me if I don't!), you are right, strength is a neural adaptation and you can get very strong without gaining seemingly much muscle (especially if you're just eating at maintenence)..
But adding muscle can't help but increase strength, and without muscle growth your strength can't help but plateau eventually..
To add muscle you need to eat above maintenence, and when you eat above maintenence your body partitions it towards BOTH fat and muscle gain..
There is NO way that I know of that you can add 100% muscle..
I think even under optimal conditions the best you can hope for, without both drugs and good genes, is 50/50..
Now, the higher percentage of body fat you are, the more your body is wired to put any extra calories towards mostly fat..
So in my case what I'm trying to do is first get to a body fat level conducive to maximum calorie to muscle partitioning (11% seems to be the sweet spot, from what I've read), FAST, so I can start making strength and muscle gains, and quit dieting and eat enough to accomplish this..
I've accepted that I'll lose some muscle along the way..
But one can loose fat, or one can gain muscle, but it's very, very hard to do both at the same time, again, without drugs and good genes..
So best to get the fat loss over with, ASAP, without agonizing over muscle loss, then get on with the fun part..
And the opposite is true in your case..
Best to eat enough (provided your fat level is around that 11% sweet spot) to gain the muscle and accept that you are going to gain some fat, and once you reach a tipping point where you should cut (15% is about right, I'm told), cut and cut hard and as fast as possible without loosing too much muscle (as long as you eat at least 1g of protein for every pound of body weight, you shouldn't lose any muscle)..
Strenght is both hypertrophy and neural action. More Cross sectional area, more contractile proteins = more strenght ability, neural optimization allows you to display that strenght in complex movements.
Strength gains will be optimal with a slight surplus of calories, but that doesn work well with your goals, so you have to make concessions for each of your goals.
A large part of it also has to do with your overall genetic potential and how far you are from that potential. I started lifting about 9 months ago. I was coming from being in the worst shape I've ever been in. Also, when I was in shape it was never from lifting. I always ran, rode bikes, played soccer, etc. I was never much of a lifter except for after a knee injury back in 1997 when I spent several months doing body building style programs. I got nothing to show for it. So, I wasn't very strong to begin with.
I've made enormous strides in my overall strength, and I seem to have even gained some muscle mass (just a little) since I've started lifting heavy. In that same time I've lost over 30 pounds. But, the stronger I get, and the leaner I get the more difficult it becomes. It seems like both my strength gains and fat loss are slowing down. I'm prioritizing the fat loss right now (Well, right now I'm prioritizing vacation) knowing that I'll be able to gain back any strength losses after the fact.
I only say this to highlight the fact that training age and genetic potential play a large factor in what is going on physiologically. If you've never lifted low reps with near maximal weights, you may find that you're able to make strength gains on low calories. You may even be able to loss weight and gain strength. But, it depends on those factors.
Thanks for the comments/advice guys. I've been lifting for a few years now (with some long breaks thrown in there) but I've only just gotten really serious about it beginning this year (actually trying to learn about the different aspects of lifting instead of just doing it on the fly). I'm going to do a slight increase in calories - about 250 (mostly carbs and protein)- and see where that gets me.
I'm going to do a slight increase in calories - about 250 (mostly carbs and protein)- and see where that gets me
Sounds like a plan..
Just note that like I said before half-assing it is not the way to go, in my honest opinion..
The key is to go big, or go home (stay the same)..
You have to make a choice as to what your ultimate goal is..
Gaining strength and muscle, with the inevitable fat.. Staying the same weight, strength and size while loosing a bit of fat.. Loosing weight while loosing MAYBE a bit of muscle and no strength..
If the ultimate goal is to gain strength and muscle, I wouldn't pussyfoot around it.. Eat the minimum 500 cals over maitenence..
Gain the strength and muscle, gain the fat..
Then cut the fat and keep the strength (and almost if not all the muscle).
Just my humble opinion..
What's your body fat at now, do you know?
If it's low, like I say, that's the best position to be in for gaining the most muscle and least fat..
If you're up around 20%, where I am, better to get down to 11-15%, and THEN bulk..
But let us know how you make out, in any case..
How do you keep track of your cal intake? How do you know what your daily maintenence requirements are?
I'm totally on board with you dougz re: going all or nothing. I mean why invest all the effort in the gym only to short change yourself at the same time by cutting corners elsewhere. I just wasn't sure how much extra calories you needed for strength. I'm currently somewhere between probably 12-15% bf....I don't know how much you can trust those electronic BF scales/analyzers. I used the the formula in New Rules to calculate my maintenance - which is approx 2700 @ a 40% activity factor. So I rounded up to 3000/day for strengh and I'm shooting for about a 23%/45%/32% split for protein/carbs/fat. And I just recently started using fitday.com for tracking. I'll prob just go up to 3200/day to be on the safe side given that calculating all these figures isn't an exact science. Thanks again.
At 12-15% body fat (I would get it measured with calipers by a professional, as body fat scales are notoriously inaccurate.. Even calipers can only come within 4% body fat accuracy) you would be good to go..
When you're CERTAIN you're at 15% or higher, it'd be time to cut till you're back around 12%..
I'm currently doing Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Diet, which is the fastest way to get down to 15% body fat, while loosing the least amount of muscle..
After that. I'll go on Lyle's Ultimate Diet 2.0, which is for those guys looking to get to 10-12%, and then after that he has recommendations for bulking with as little fat gain as possible, and also what type of excersizes to do and when (you do all three types, high rep, low weight, hypertrophy, and power lifting)....
Ask questions in the forum, seriously consider buying the books..
Anyhoo, 3200 cals is a great place to start..
You're right that it's not an exact science.. Not by a long haul!
I'm going to get one of those GoWearFit devices..
They're supposed to measure your calorie expenditure (and thus your daily maintenence requirements) within a +/- 10% range..
Which isn't perfect, but it has the advantage over formulas in that alot of people (me, for sure) have no idea what they're activity level actually is.. So we end up over or underestimating to the point where the activity modifier is functionally useless..
But the other way to do it is just start at the formula's recommended calories, and see what happens (you'll of course have to do this even with a GoWearFit strapped to your arm.. numbers on a screen can't argue with real world results!!)..
If you start gaining too much weight after a week or two (more than a pound every week to 9 days, say), you know you have to cut back some calories, cut back carbs, or add some cardio, or all three (not all at once, of course, or you won't be able to tell what worked)..
At 12-15% body fat (I would get it measured with calipers by a professional, as body fat scales are notoriously inaccurate.. Even calipers can only come within 4% body fat accuracy) you would be good to go..
When you're CERTAIN you're at 15% or higher, it'd be time to cut till you're back around 12%..
I'm currently doing Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Diet, which is the fastest way to get down to 15% body fat, while loosing the least amount of muscle..
After that. I'll go on Lyle's Ultimate Diet 2.0, which is for those guys looking to get to 10-12%, and then after that he has recommendations for bulking with as little fat gain as possible, and also what type of excersizes to do and when (you do all three types, high rep, low weight, hypertrophy, and power lifting)....
Doug, I really agree with this. Lyle McDonald and Alan Aragon are the best two resources for this type of stuff. Lyle's materials really get down to the details of exactly what you need to do. Each of his books are designed with a specific purpose and type of individual (BF levels and goals). If a person is unsure of what to do next, all you have to do is join his forum and ask.
To me, the best guage for BF level is to take pics and post them in Lyle's forum. He has a thread specifically for this purpose.
Diet question - Strength vs Hypertrophy
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