I am struggling to get my HIIT high-intensity enough. Because of years of wear and tear on my knees, hips and ankles, I can't run; if I could sprint I bet that would work but I can't.
I've tried stairmaster, bike and rowing machine and the top level does not test me until my fourth or fifth interval (unless my intervals are longer than one minute). By the fourth or fifth interval, I'm finally feeling like there is some high intensity in my high intensity training.
I'm sure if I had the arm strength to do more than 10 pushups, that burpees would be my solution :-)
I guess I just would like to know if what I'm doing is sufficient, or, should I come up with something else?
Must you bother then? Is it that important to you?
You're getting benefit from what you're doing, even if not the kind of benefit you think you should. Try a spin bike? Elliptical? Can you jumprope? Stairruns? Arc trainer? Rollerblading? See if setting a treadmill to max incline makes it tough enough at a brisk walk pace.
The first couple are usually not knock you down hard anyway if you have decent conditioning. It's meant to get harder and harder. You can also shorten your rests so that you have less recovery time, thereby increasing toughness sooner.
[quote=Aoife;636024]Must you bother then? Is it that important to you?
It's important to me to know if I'm doing HIIT or just another form of interval training; I have some specific purposes in mind. If what I'm doing is just another form of interval training I'll just cut it out of my gym time. I already train a lot, several different forms of martial arts.
Is it possible that your joint issues are preventing you from putting out the force necessary to drive the heart rate up quickly? You have to put out a lot of force during the high intensity period.
You may have to do longer high intensity periods to drive the HR up.
Are you wearing a heart rate monitor? I find increasing the incline on the treadmill is the fastest way to rev up my heart rate. At first I was just walking at 6.0 incline, now I am running at ~4.5 incline.
Dropping the incline down to zero during the rest period brings my heart rate back down.
I am going to try my next HITT on a Spinning Bike. Either standing up with tons of resistance or speed drills should be high intense enough!
If you're conditioning for MA, then HIIT or intervals at some arbitrary length for rest and work is not specifically helping anyway. Come up with a circuit that's more in line with your sport and the times of rounds.
You don't need to do 10 pushups to do burpees. And you can mix them up with other things in a circuit.
5 burpees (or two, even)
5 knee tucks
5 chinups
10 bodyweight squats
10 db swings per hand
Say your sport 3, 3 minute rounds, with 1 minute rests. Do the above circuit (or one like it) for 3 minutes, rest 1, repeat until done.
Yeah, that's what I've been thinking too. I really need to balance gym time and mat time carefully so I'm thinking I might skip the intervals at the end of each NROL4W workout and do longer interval training on my off-days.
"rowing machine and the top level does not test me until my fourth or fifth interval"
I'm confused by this. What rowing machine are you using? The Concept2 has no "setting" per se but works against you in proportion to the effort you put into it. There is a lever to change the wind resistance, but this affects the "feel" of the boat; regardless of the damper setting the numerical result (time per 500 meters) reflects your effort. You can always get it lower if you row harder, and there will always be a speed you cannot maintain for 30 seconds, even on the first interval.
Try finding one, and after a 5-minute warmup get the number as low as you can on every stroke for 30 seconds. By the end of that you will be huffing and puffing to beat the band. You'll probably be doing something like 40 strokes per minute (that number is on the top right of the screen) and a time/500m anywhere from 1:20-2:00 depending on your fitness. I'm in the top 10% for 40 year old men, and my 30 second intervals are at a pace of 1:30/500m, and after the 5th or 6th I'm ready to barf.
Put another way - if I loaded up a bar and told you to squat it 20 times in 30 seconds (a squat is very similar to the first 70% of a rowing stroke) - I'm sure I could find some weight that you could not complete either due to muscular or cardiopulmonary fatigue (maybe like 80% of your 1RM?). The Concept2 rower basically lets you "load" your stroke as much as you want - just row harder to get the time/500m down and it's equivalent to having more weight thrown on the bar.
I'm not sure what rowing machine my gym has but it's definitely not like the one you're describing. It's pretty old. I go as fast as I can on the "10" setting which is highest, my speed is mostly limited by how fast I can pull myself back with the tops of my feet. The one you're describing sounds great. Oh well.
The Concept 2 has a flywheel that generates wind (resistance), and a seat on a steel rail, with footstraps. The monitor shows time rowed, meters rowed, speed (in time to complete 500 meters), stroke rate (strokes per minute, spm, or s), and optionally some other stuff. When you grab the handle and thrust yourself back (first with your legs, then your back, then your shoulders and arms), the handle pulls a bicycle chain which makes the flywheel spin. The faster that wheel spins, the higher the wind resistance (exponentially) and the harder it is to make the wheel keep turning or accelerating. The computer figures your speed after each stroke by looking at how fast the wheel is actually turning and also how fast it decelerates after your stroke (to figure out how much wind resistance there was). If there's a damper (maybe what you're setting to 10?) that affects the wind resistance generated, and can make it feel like a heavy or light boat, but this is taken into account when the speed is calculated - what you would find is that setting it to 1 "feels" easier, but you have to get the wheel going faster and take more strokes per minute to get the computed time down. Setting it to 10 feels harder on each stroke, but the wheel doesn't have to turn as fast to give you a faster computed time. It's like the difference between trying to lift 2000 lbs in 30 seconds - you can either do 100 lbs 20 times or 50 lbs 40 times. Setting the damper to 10 is like the former and to 1 is like the later - but either way you need to lift 4000 lbs.
It sounds like you are limited on the "recovery". Most rowers (on a machine or in a boat) can get up to 40+ strokes per minute. On the machine that can feel "uncontrolled" at first - like you're flailing, but you get used to it. On the drive, just think about trying to push the footboards away from you with all your might on every stroke - again feeling a lot like a squat which morphs into a bent-over-row feel finishing with a high-pull.
I love rowing because unlike the other things (running, biking, etc.) you'll use 85%+ of your muscle fibers on every stroke.
Well I'll try it out again, I really liked the full-bodied quality of rowing, if I lower the resistance number will the recovery be quicker?
Since you use this a lot and no one at my gym seems to, I have another question for you - how much flexion of the spine do you allow? Do you keep the spine as neutral as possible or do you let your back curve?
On a maintained concept 2, a setting of 3-5 is more realistic in terms of rowing on water. I set mine at 4-5.
At 10, it's like trying to row a tugboat.
Gwynn, I haven't been rowing long, but I'm pretty observant. I like to use stroke rate and wattage in relation to BW as the determinant of effort.
I go with a wattage of 40-50% of BW as low intensity. I consider 80-100% as high intensity.
At 205lbs, last measure, that means I need 82-103 watts average per split to be a low intensity workout. I need a 164-205 for high intensity (in truth, I've gotten 400+ watts and normally do 300 or more during high intensity periods).
Stroke rate is independent of wattage. You can have a stroke rate of 18 SPM and pull 200+ watts and that is a strength developing workout. I play mainly with stroke rate and wattage for my workouts. I might use a low stroke rate, but pull hard for high wattage, or go high stroke rate with easy pulling for low wattage or high or low on both.
I do HIIT when I can, but since I lift, I try not to tax myself too much that it compromises my lifts.
Check out my log. I've been logging my erg sessions.
You may want to try it again. I didn't notice your comment about the rower. It does seem odd that you can't get to a good work zone, as I've never heard that complaint before, even from people who actually do crew. Not to say it's not possible or anything, just that I can't see how it's not a good workout for nearly anyone. It's the easiest thing next to running/walking that there is to control and make as hard or easy as you want.
Regarding the mechanics of the stroke ... You obviously start with just a leg push. The back should be naturally straight (not hunched over, but a proper posture like you're sitting in a chair. The hips are flexed so that you're at about an 11 o'clock position with your torso. You are just hanging on the handle (imagine hanging from a tree branch as you "push" your footboards away). As you come towards the end of the leg drive, your back will swing from about 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock, and you'll engage the upper body part of the stroke, bringing the handle in to somewhere between your bellybutton and the bottom of your sternum. Include your lats to bring your shoulder blades towards the midline.
Cynic is one of my buds from over on the c2 forum! My numbers are that I'm 195#. I warm up at ~2:10/500m = 160W, my anaerobic threshold pieces (10' or so) are at 1:50/500m = 260W, my HIIT pieces (30s) are at 1:30/500m = 440W. You can see that (as in real life) dropping the speed is not linear with the power needed. Dropping 20s from 2:10 to 1:50 requires 1.6x the power; dropping the next 20s from 1:50 to 1:30 requires another 1.6x the power.
I'm guessing that the best Olympic rowers can probably get a "low pull" (single lowest number on the monitor) of about 1:10, which would be 700W+ (about 1 horsepower).
Gwynn, how long have you been doing intervals? Realistically if you are very fit then it's natural to not start feeling the intensity until 10 minutes into the program give or take. I have athletes that are so well conditioned that it takes a good 15 minutes to even phase them.
You may want to try something like this:
A1) Power Snatch From Knee 6 sets of 6 reps rest 90 seconds
A2) Snatch Pull From Floor 6*6 90
I promise this will get you feeling very pukey and will have little to no wear on your knees, hips, or ankles.
Gwynn, how long have you been doing intervals? Realistically if you are very fit then it's natural to not start feeling the intensity until 10 minutes into the program give or take. I have athletes that are so well conditioned that it takes a good 15 minutes to even phase them.
You may want to try something like this:
A1) Power Snatch From Knee 6 sets of 6 reps rest 90 seconds
A2) Snatch Pull From Floor 6*6 90
I promise this will get you feeling very pukey and will have little to no wear on your knees, hips, or ankles.
I've been highly active my whole life (mountain climbing at +12K and I was a professional dancer until age 32 or so). At 32 I switched to MA and am now a black belt in Aikido, Danzan Ryu Jujitsu and Toyama Ryu Battodo (Japanese sword). I'm 39. I don't compete but our lists are pretty tough and I can't rely on MA for conditioning - I teach a lot and also the arts are pretty hard on the body. After I quit dancing my "shape" got a lot worse. :-(
So, I'm interested in your workout but I have to ask (being very new to weighlifting) - What are Power Snatch from Knee and Snatch Pull from Floor? Thanks!
I've been highly active my whole life (mountain climbing at +12K and I was a professional dancer until age 32 or so). At 32 I switched to MA and am now a black belt in Aikido, Danzan Ryu Jujitsu and Toyama Ryu Battodo (Japanese sword). I'm 39. I don't compete but our lists are pretty tough and I can't rely on MA for conditioning - I teach a lot and also the arts are pretty hard on the body. After I quit dancing my "shape" got a lot worse. :-(
So, I'm interested in your workout but I have to ask (being very new to weighlifting) - What are Power Snatch from Knee and Snatch Pull from Floor? Thanks!
Gwynn
Gwynn, this is a snatch, Olympic style:
Power snatches are performed w/o a second knee bend. IOW, that little dip they do to get under the bar.
Ok, so you tube took the power snatch from knee video off its site. I just watched a power snatch demonstration - I guess doing it "from knee" means you do the snatch from holding the bar at knee level?
Correct. And if you are using this for conditioning, then don't worry so much about nailing the form perfectly. Work on technique, but use a large enough load to make you want to puke.
HIIT frustration/questions
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