I QUIT!

[banderbe]

Well, actually I'm just quitting NROL. I am five workouts away from completing Hypertrophy I.

Basically I've come to the conclusion that it's unnecessarily complicated for a novice trainee like myself.

I've only been training for a year, and I have a long way to go before I get anywhere near my genetic potential for weight lifted in exercises like the squat.

There's really no reason to use undulating periodization! Why bother with five sets of five, three sets of fifteen, four sets of ten.. when a much simpler routine of 3 x 5 will allow linear weight progression each and every time I step into the gym?

As I've detailed on my blog I'm going to begin Starting Strength from Mark Rippetoe and focus on actually adding weight to the bar in my squat and deadlift. I've found weight progression with Hypertrophy I to be excruciatingly slow.

Additionally, I have been disappointed at the lack of information in NROL regarding proper weight selection, weight progression, etc. All Lou really says is that you should try to set a new PR each time you enter the gym. Well, that's great but it doesn't really give a new trainee the information they need.

For example, if you set a new PR on the squat at the start of your workout, the chances of setting a new PR on your split squat at the end of the workout will be less simply because you're more fatigued. Someone who doesn't know that my find themselves frustrated at the fact that they aren't making progress with those lifts that come later on in the workout.

I also think it's pretty unrealistic to expect a novice trainee to be able to do three sets of fifteen squats with only 30 seconds of rest between sets. One, it's pretty demanding from a cardiovascular stand point, and two, someone who hasn't totally mastered proper squatting form is going to have their form start to break down by the time they get to ten reps and beyond, and then they're going to run the risk of injury. Again, a simpler 5 rep set would allow the trainee to focus on form.

Anyway I still love the book but I don't think the hypertrophy workouts are ideal for someone new to the weight room. That said, the Fat Loss routines are FANTASTIC and I do still highly recommend them for everyone, novice or not.

[tcoy777]

I am sorry you had a bad experience with Hyp 1. I too was a noobie or sorts when starting NROL. I had never done real squats or deadlifts before. I found Hyp 1 to be difficult, but rewarding.

Your problem with the weight load is a valid point, but to me only on the first round through each rep range. Once you find the correct weight, making gains be it weight or reps should come. I think the problem is focusing on numbers. From what I gather the HYP workouts are designed to stress your body differently with each rep range and rest range. For me the Hyp workouts really helped me get ready for Strength 1. First I built muscle and stamina.

With this said, everyones goals are different. How your body adapts to a set of exercises will be different from mine. I agree that 3x5 or something similar to that helps your strength numbers (lifting heavy), If that is your only goal.

Good luck on Starting Strength. I have heard its a great program and I will be interested in your thoughts on it.

[cappuccino]

I think your concerns about the weight selection actually answer your own questions.

if you think 15 rep squats are too hard with only 30 sec rests, you're using too much weight.

If you can't do more on the split squat at the end of the routine, maybe you've over taxed yourself at the beginning.

It's a 'goal' to do better each workout and each lift, but really that's just a target to keep you from not pushing yourself. If you always lift where you're comfortable, you're not making progress. On the other hand, you won't necessarily make a PR each time you're in the gym, but you should give the effort as if you were....

no one can tell you how much weight to use...just guidelines. If your form/rest suffers, back off the weights. If you feel like you had more in you during the workout--go higher.

I do agree that's it's hard to gauge how much weight to use when the set/rep schemes change frequently. At that point, don't worry so much about the weight, but just make sure you're giving it your all at each session. Sometimes I don't know where to start with a weight, I just guess and move from there.

Good luck on whatever program you choose.

[Aoife]

I agree with cappy. If all you can do is BW when you have 15 reps and 30s rest, then that's all you do.

I also think that if your goal is to hit at PR in every workout, that it doesn't mean every exercise in every workout. And yes, it's still just a goal. You won't always make it, but you work toward it.

Have fun with SS, hope you enjoy it.

[soxhuskies88]

I still find myself making progress for lifts at the end of the workout (granted, I'm still in FLII and won't be starting Hyp I for a couple of weeks). It may not be much from time to time, but progress nonetheless. If I was totally rested and did some of the later exercises at the start of the workout, then the weight I would use would be higher, but it's more about choosing my weights with the consideration that I am pretty tired by that point.

Also, I agree with everyone that it sounds like you might be using too much weight. Either way, good luck in your new program.

[Sign]

I have had the same thoughts as you regarding the new PR every workout and if you go higher at the beginning the ending may suffer. The conclusion I came to was, rather than try to set a PR every exercise simply look to see if your overall rest times improved or if your total volume work has increased that workout. So if you get more reps on a couple exercises but not all then you have still done more work then your previous workout. The same can be said with more weight as long as you don't use so much added weight that you miss reps at the end of the workout.

With all that said however, there is nothing wrong with trying a new routine. Sometimes it helps to change it up and go with something by a new trainer. If you are excited to start SS then it will work out a lot better for you then just sticking with NROL because you think you have to but don't want to.

[RobLL]

"Fun-ness" is obviously not an endall and be-all, but I found that I didn't have nearly as much fun doing hypertrophy as the other exercises, and EDT. But 'fun' is a big part of what keeps motivation high, especially if you work out close to the edge of your capability almost every time. And besides I would get kicked out of the gym if I threw a medicine ball against the wall!

ps - I did all of the Fatloss twice. Definitely got my money's worth out of the book. May do them again in a few years.

[banderbe]

Originally Posted by tcoy777

Your problem with the weight load is a valid point, but to me only on the first round through each rep range. Once you find the correct weight, making gains be it weight or reps should come. I think the problem is focusing on numbers. From what I gather the HYP workouts are designed to stress your body differently with each rep range and rest range. For me the Hyp workouts really helped me get ready for Strength 1. First I built muscle and stamina.

I agree that progress does come. I mean, my lifts have gone up. Well, actually my upper body lifts have gone up. I switched from running shoes to chuck taylors shortly after starting, and basically I had to drop a crap load of weight from my squat and essentially learn how to squat all over again.

So if anyone is reading this and you're squatting in shoes with an elevated heel.. STOP.

Anyway, the weight progression with the undulating periodization is just going to be slower. I mean, if I do 5x5 squats it's not for 6 more workouts that I get to do it again.

With SS, I can squat 5x5 three days a week. I think if you're looking to add mass, you will NOT add mass if you're not adding weight to the bar.

So that's my goal, adding as much muscle mass as possible so I am going to focus on getting my squat and deadlift as high as I possibly can before I need to move to a more intermediate routine.

Then I will be trying out Bill Starr's 5x5 Intermediate routine.

[banderbe]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention I did Fat Loss I, II, III and Strength I, and now Hypertrophy I.

I did like the strength routine quite a lot.. I can definitely see myself coming back to do strength II and III, and next time I cut up I might try the FL workouts.

Although, I think I might give Alwyn a call and sign up for "Warp Speed Fat loss" or buy a copy of Afterburn.

[tall_drinka_h20]

Sorry to hear! I hope you are looking for another program to move on to! I found Hyp I to drag on a bit and wanted to drop it a few times. Being relatively new to weight training I find the hardest part is finding your rep ranges for new sets, and all the change ups don't make it any easier. Stoked though, I have added 3 kilos in 3 weeks on Hyp II... Have you tried S2B yet? I found it catered well to newbies.

[tcoy777]

Originally Posted by banderbe

Oh yeah I forgot to mention I did Fat Loss I, II, III and Strength I, and now Hypertrophy I.

I did like the strength routine quite a lot.. I can definitely see myself coming back to do strength II and III, and next time I cut up I might try the FL workouts.

Although, I think I might give Alwyn a call and sign up for "Warp Speed Fat loss" or buy a copy of Afterburn.

That I think is most important points to any workout plan. What are your goals. See for me There is NO WAY I could have lifted 305 deadlift (safely) in Strength 1 without doing the Hyp workouts. They prepared my body to lift heavy. Now I will say the Hyp workouts are a drag for sure, but what does not kill you makes you stronger!

[justinbass]

Originally Posted by banderbe

Anyway, the weight progression with the undulating periodization is just going to be slower.

True statement. That is why the workout is called Hypertrophy and not Strength. Undulating periodization is great for getting bigger. Not so great (but still good) for getting stronger.

Originally Posted by banderbe

With SS, I can squat 5x5 three days a week. I think if you're looking to add mass, you will NOT add mass if you're not adding weight to the bar.

You might want to re-read SS and start doing 3x5 and not 5x5 squats. Great book. Mark is the man. I learned to much about proper form from that book.