Wave loading and 1RM

JorgenMan · 05-08-2008, 10:46 AM

Just an interesting observation I've made while analyzing (NERRRRD!) my numbers from NROL Strength I. On the sets where I've felt good about the amount of weight I chose for each of my wave loading (6,1,6,1) sets, the 1RM increases fairly linearly with each set. When I say "felt good about," I mean that I felt like each set helped me to progress to a maximum amount of weight on the 4th set. Take these comments with a grain of salt - I've only just started lifting - but I think this may help beginners to get some good rough numbers to work with on wave loading sets.

For example:

**I'm using 1RM = weight * 36 / (37-reps)

A few deadlift workouts I've felt good about went like this:
155 x 6 -> 1RM = 180
185 x 1 -> 1RM = 185 (+5 from previous set)
165 x 6 -> 1RM = 191.6 (+6.6 from previous set)
195 x 1 -> 1RM = 195 (+3.4 from previous set)

165 x 6 -> 1RM = 191.6
200 x 1 -> 1RM = 200 (+8.4 from previous set)
185 x 6 -> 1RM = 214 (+14 from previous set)
225 x 1 -> 1RM = 225 (+11 from previous set)

175 x 6 -> 1RM = 203.2
215 x 1 -> 1RM = 215 (+11.8 from previous set)
200 x 6 -> 1RM = 232.2 (+17.2 from previous set)
245 x 1 -> 1RM = 245 (+12.8 from previous set)

Compare this to my last squat workout, where I felt like I should have been able to hit a max on my 4th set, but didn't quite get it:
145 x 6 -> 1RM = 168.4
170 x 1 -> 1RM = 170 (+1.6 from previous set)
155 x 6 -> 1RM = 180 (+10 from previous set)
180 x 0 -> 1RM = 0 (would have been same as previous set)

I wonder now if I wore myself out on the early sets. Maybe if I had done something like this, I would have been able to lift the 4th set:
140 x 6 -> 1RM = 162.6
170 x 1 -> 1RM = 170 (+7.4 from previous set)
150 x 6 -> 1RM = 174.2 (+4.2 from previous set)
180 x 1 -> 1RM = 180 (+5.8 from previous set)

So, in my deadlift workout today, I'll probably try this:
185 x 6 -> 1RM = 214.8
225 x 1 -> 1RM = 225 (+10.2 from previous set)
205 x 6 -> 1RM = 238.1 (+13.1 from previous set)
255 x 1 -> 1RM = 255 (+16.9 from previous set)

I'm curious if other people's numbers follow a similar trend. If so, this could be a good way to plan wave loading to hit a specific max, especially if you're new to the concept and don't have an intuitive sense of how much you should lift on each set.

tcoy777 · 05-08-2008, 02:52 PM

I just finished Strength 1. I don't know about breaking out the math or not, but my goal was to add as much weight as I could each new set and each workout (while keeping solid form). My final gains were great. I think the hardest part is starting on week 1, finding what your 6 rep max is and your 1 rep max. Then build on that.

I just don't know if can buy that some formula is going to tell me what my 1RM is going to be. I am stronger on DL then Bench so it would not work that way for me.

Great gains for you though. The strength workouts do amazing things for sure!

JorgenMan · 05-08-2008, 04:50 PM

Long post warning...

No, I'm not saying you can predict your 1RM. I'm talking about choosing the right amount of weight on sets 1, 2, and 3 so that you can hit your goal amount on the 4th set. Too much weight too early wears you out. Too little weight doesn't prepare your body for the 1RM. In other words, if I wanted to hit 225 pounds on set 4, I might do one of these combinations:

165 x 6, 200 x 1, 185 x 6, 225 x 1
170 x 6, 210 x 1, 180 x 6, 225 x 1
175 x 6, 205 x 1, 195 x 6, 225 x 1

For me, it seemed that I performed best when I selected weights such that the 1RM increased by roughly the same amount each set. For example,

165 x 6 -> 1RM = 191.6
200 x 1 -> 1RM = 200 (+8.4 from previous set)
185 x 6 -> 1RM = 214 (+14 from previous set)
225 x 1 -> 1RM = 225 (+11 from previous set)

However, it's possible that for someone else, it might be best to increase only between sets 1 and 2 and between set 3 and 4, like this:

170 x 6 -> 1RM = 197.4
210 x 1 -> 1RM = 210 (+12.6 from previous set)
180 x 6 -> 1RM = 209 (about the same as previous set)
225 x 1 -> 1RM = 225 (+16 from previous set)

Or, maybe someone else does best when they increase 1RM only between sets 2 and 3, like this:

175 x 6 -> 1RM = 203
205 x 1 -> 1RM = 205 (about the same as previous set)
195 x 6 -> 1RM = 226 (+21 from previous set)
225 x 1 -> 1RM = 225 (about the same as previous set)

Looking at your workout from 4-22-08, which seemed to be one you were happy with:

160 x 6 -> 1RM = 185.8
170 x 1 -> 1RM = 170 (-15.8 from previous set)
165 x 5 -> 1RM = 185.6 (+15.6 from previous set)
175 x 1 -> 1RM = 175 (-10.6 from previous set)

So, it looks like your 1RM jumped up and down between different sets. That just makes me wonder:

Would you have done better or worse if your 1RM increased steadily with each set, like mine tend to do?
Would I do better or worse if my 1RM went up and down, like yours did in this particular workout?
Can differences between people be accounted for in a personalized 1RM function?
Can differences between exercises be accounted for in an exercise-customized 1RM function?

Again, this isn't meant to be some new scientific theory. I'm an engineer, so I can't help but analyze and optimize. This is more a thought experiment than anything else.

Regardless of whether or not this half-cocked theory is true at all, though, I can definitely say that it is worth analyzing your numbers to see what works for you and what doesn't.

JorgenMan · 05-08-2008, 04:55 PM

And thanks for the kind words. I think that, even more than being able to lift more weight, I really enjoy learning to do the exercises with good form, and being able to do them confidently.

tcoy777 · 05-08-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JorgenMan

Long post warning...

[/indent]Looking at your workout from 4-22-08, which seemed to be one you were happy with:

160 x 6 -> 1RM = 185.8
170 x 1 -> 1RM = 170 (-15.8 from previous set)
165 x 5 -> 1RM = 185.6 (+15.6 from previous set)
175 x 1 -> 1RM = 175 (-10.6 from previous set)

So, it looks like your 1RM jumped up and down between different sets. That just makes me wonder:

Would you have done better or worse if your 1RM increased steadily with each set, like mine tend to do?
Would I do better or worse if my 1RM went up and down, like yours did in this particular workout?
Can differences between people be accounted for in a personalized 1RM function?
Can differences between exercises be accounted for in an exercise-customized 1RM function?

Again, this isn't meant to be some new scientific theory. I'm an engineer, so I can't help but analyze and optimize. This is more a thought experiment than anything else.

Regardless of whether or not this half-cocked theory is true at all, though, I can definitely say that it is worth analyzing your numbers to see what works for you and what doesn't.

That is interesting for sure. See for me I am week on bench. So I tried to push every set as high as I could for the that rep range. If I went lighter on the reps of 6 could I have done higher on the 1 rep, maybe. I have a feeling with my weakness in bench I doubt it. For me there is something a miss with my bench. The squats and DL I could totally see your point. Go a bit lighter on the 6 rep and then really push the 1 RM. I thought the point of the 6 reps were to push as hard as you could on the first. Then the 1RM should seem easy as your only doing 1 rep. Then the next 6 rep should feel easier then the first as its lighter then the 1RM.

Either way I think there is a point were your body can't do any more weight until your muscles get bigger. I am hoping that happens with my bench soon!

JorgenMan · 05-09-2008, 10:02 AM

I'm exactly the same way with bench. My body just seems to run out of bench-pressing power so quickly. It does seem to be getting better, though.