Running/Cycling and NROL

[UltraMarathonerWannabee]

I am mainly doing the NROL for running related injury prevention. Is there anyone out there who has been on the program more than 1-2 months that is having good success in their running or even cycling?

I am not on any special diet. It tried the TNT Diet, but I felt weak. Plus, I love to cook and eat so it was doomed from the start.

[tcoy777]

NROL is a great program. I have experienced great gains. I will say though that there are some stages of the program that IMHO work better then others with running. For example if you have a important race coming up and are training for it, you may not want to focus so much on the Strength workouts. Over all though I have been extremely happy with my gains in lifting as well as increased speed and leg strength for running. Just taper your expectations for muscle gain while doing a lot of running and EAT,EAT, and then EAT some more.

[UltraMarathonerWannabee]

Originally Posted by tcoy777

NROL is a great program. I have experienced great gains. I will say though that there are some stages of the program that IMHO work better then others with running. For example if you have a important race coming up and are training for it, you may not want to focus so much on the Strength workouts. Over all though I have been extremely happy with my gains in lifting as well as increased speed and leg strength for running. Just taper your expectations for muscle gain while doing a lot of running and EAT,EAT, and then EAT some more.

I am not worried about muscle size. Over the past 2-3 years of running, I have had this re-occurring pain behind the knee. I recently joined a gym and I want to strengthen my legs. I have tried stretching, not stretching, and using a foam roller. I still have problems.

My Mon-Fri diet right now is:
Breakfast: bagel, egg, greens, and tomato
Post workout: protein shake
Mid-morning snack: banana/orange
Lunch: salad with grilled chicken
Snack: apple
Dinner: salad with grilled chicken
Bedtime: Caesin(sp?) shake

Friday night through Sunday is completely different. I love to cook and I eat all kinds of different ethnic foods.

[Phaedrus49er]

Originally Posted by UltraMarathonerWannabee

I am not worried about muscle size. Over the past 2-3 years of running, I have had this re-occurring pain behind the knee. I recently joined a gym and I want to strengthen my legs. I have tried stretching, not stretching, and using a foam roller. I still have problems.

As a former sufferer of both acute and chronic running-related injuries, this has become one of my favorite research topics. You might want to toss this question out in both the Injuries and Running forums as well, but my first question is: what shoes are you wearing (both for training and everyday usage)?

[LunchboxMan]

funny you mention this. i'm doing NROL HYP series right now exactly for the reasons you mention. Two years ago, i did my first marathon and followed NROL to keep my muscle as well as injury prevention. It worked really well as i was able to do a lot of running and stay injury-free. Earlier this Spring, i started training for a marathon and a half-ironman (so added cycling essentially). Within a week, i was injured (IT band issues). Since then i've restarted doing NROL HYP series and after a couple of weeks break, i'm back to running and cycling (often on the same day - so lotsa miles). so far so good *knock wood*. So i think NROL works great for injury prevention. The only thing is to avoid heavy mileage on lower-body days since they are *really* intense.

Good luck!

oh, btw, i've done TNT diet before and it was great for fat loss but for endurance athletes (ie triathlons, marathons) it's really going to affect your performance. i'm on a more carb-heavy diet atm but still adhering to all the clean eating "rules"

[UltraMarathonerWannabee]

Originally Posted by Phaedrus49er

As a former sufferer of both acute and chronic running-related injuries, this has become one of my favorite research topics. You might want to toss this question out in both the Injuries and Running forums as well, but my first question is: what shoes are you wearing (both for training and everyday usage)?

My running shoes are for running only. I first started running with two pairs of Brooks Radius. I bought them online without trying them on and I never had any problems. I bought a new pair and the arches were different and then I couldn't wear them anymore. So, I went to a running store and had a pair of Saucony Omni 6s pro-fitted after watching how I run. I continuous shin splints for 150 miles on those. After spending $90 or more on shoes each time, I decided to try a cheaper pair: Mizunos Wave 10s which are neutral. Currently, I use the Mizunos to run and the Sauconys to weight train and the elliptical.

I start having the behind the knee problem when I increase my mileage over 20 miles. I do follow the 10% rule. The most miles I have put into one week is about 35 miles and the pain got too unbearable. I would like to get up to 50-60. I am currently around 20 miles. Between the TNT program and the NROL program, I have been working out my legs for about a month now. I think I will give it another month before increasing the mileage.

[UltraMarathonerWannabee]

Originally Posted by LunchboxMan

funny you mention this. i'm doing NROL HYP series right now exactly for the reasons you mention. Two years ago, i did my first marathon and followed NROL to keep my muscle as well as injury prevention. It worked really well as i was able to do a lot of running and stay injury-free. Earlier this Spring, i started training for a marathon and a half-ironman (so added cycling essentially). Within a week, i was injured (IT band issues). Since then i've restarted doing NROL HYP series and after a couple of weeks break, i'm back to running and cycling (often on the same day - so lotsa miles). so far so good *knock wood*. So i think NROL works great for injury prevention. The only thing is to avoid heavy mileage on lower-body days since they are *really* intense.

Good luck!

oh, btw, i've done TNT diet before and it was great for fat loss but for endurance athletes (ie triathlons, marathons) it's really going to affect your performance. i'm on a more carb-heavy diet atm but still adhering to all the clean eating "rules"

I would like to do a tri, but I can't freestyle swim. Here is what I am doing right now.

Sundayfficeffice" />

AM: Bike >= 40 miles PM: Run – 3-4 miles

Monday

AM: NROL-A (Break-in)

Tuesday

AM: Elliptical – 30-45 minutes PM: Run 3-4 miles

Wednesday

AM: Elliptical – 30-45 minutes PM: Bike >= 20 miles

Thursday

AM: NROL-B (Break-in) PM: Run 3-5 miles

Friday

AM: Elliptical – 30-45 minutes PM: Bike >= 20 miles

Saturday

AM: Bike >= 40 miles AM/PM: Long run 5-6 miles

[tcoy777]

Originally Posted by UltraMarathonerWannabee

I start having the behind the knee problem when I increase my mileage over 20 miles. I do follow the 10% rule. The most miles I have put into one week is about 35 miles and the pain got too unbearable. I would like to get up to 50-60. I am currently around 20 miles. Between the TNT program and the NROL program, I have been working out my legs for about a month now. I think I will give it another month before increasing the mileage.

If you do NROL. Go light on the weight used. The leg days are no joke. I used NROL while training for my 1/2 marathon. I really give the program all the credit for me keeping pace and healthy all during training and the race. I use to have bad knee problems before running. I have only had knee problems twice since. The first time, increasing mileage with the wrong shoes and currently a little IT band issues. Mostly I think from trying to lift really heavy while still running 25 miles a week at more intense levels. I have backed off on the running and feel good. I am ready to pick up the mileage to the 20- 25 a week range.

How many days a week do you run and what is your longest run? If you do a real long run one week, do you do a shorter long run the next?

[UltraMarathonerWannabee]

I run Tu, Th, Sa(long), and Sun.
NROL is on Mon and Thur and I just started the beginner program this week.

I just started back running this week too and I am going to shorten my long runs every other week.

My cycling has pretty much remained constant and I try to ride between 16-21 mph. When I join my friends on the weekends, it's usually around 21-26mph.

[LunchboxMan]

why are you doing so much elliptical?!? i agree with the intention of cross-training but rest is essential too. also, no rest days? i personally take one every two weeks.

[tcoy777]

From looking at your schedule, I am not surprised you have knee issues. You may want to consider dropping some of the cross training. What program are you going to do after Break In?

[UltraMarathonerWannabee]

Originally Posted by tcoy777

From looking at your schedule, I am not surprised you have knee issues. You may want to consider dropping some of the cross training. What program are you going to do after Break In?

I wouldn't label it as "knee issues." Since it's behind the knee, it could be a lower hamstring problem or a upper calf problem. When people hear knee problem, they automatically assoicate it with Runner's Knee. This is not a runner's knee problem. Currently, I am not having issues. It occurs when I go over 20 miles per week.

Cycling and Elliptical are non-impact. When it comes to cycling, I am mostly a spinner. Here in Florida, it's mostly flat. most runners who have runner's knee end up being cyclists.

I am taking the NROL program step by step. I am following the "Lifter #1: Eternal Beginner" Prgram and I think "Fat-Loss I" is next.

[Phaedrus49er]

Originally Posted by UltraMarathonerWannabee

My running shoes are for running only. I first started running with two pairs of Brooks Radius. I bought them online without trying them on and I never had any problems. I bought a new pair and the arches were different and then I couldn't wear them anymore. So, I went to a running store and had a pair of Saucony Omni 6s pro-fitted after watching how I run. I continuous shin splints for 150 miles on those. After spending $90 or more on shoes each time, I decided to try a cheaper pair: Mizunos Wave 10s which are neutral. Currently, I use the Mizunos to run and the Sauconys to weight train and the elliptical.

I start having the behind the knee problem when I increase my mileage over 20 miles. I do follow the 10% rule. The most miles I have put into one week is about 35 miles and the pain got too unbearable. I would like to get up to 50-60. I am currently around 20 miles. Between the TNT program and the NROL program, I have been working out my legs for about a month now. I think I will give it another month before increasing the mileage.

All the shoes you mention have some substantial build-up and support systems, all of which actually work against your natural biomechanics. IMHO, you're moving in the right direction but still deal with significant cushioning. With the money you've spent on shoes so far, it wouldn't be out of the question to buy some racing flats for running and some minimally-supportive sneakers for the gym (Chuck Taylors, wrestling shoes, Adidas Sambas, etc). This is a decent--if long--article for consideration. In my own experience, as I've moved to flatter, less supportive shoes, my own injury issues have disappeared, for all intents and purposes.

[UltraMarathonerWannabee]

Originally Posted by Phaedrus49er

All the shoes you mention have some substantial build-up and support systems, all of which actually work against your natural biomechanics. IMHO, you're moving in the right direction but still deal with significant cushioning. With the money you've spent on shoes so far, it wouldn't be out of the question to buy some racing flats for running and some minimally-supportive sneakers for the gym (Chuck Taylors, wrestling shoes, Adidas Sambas, etc). This is a decent--if long--article for consideration. In my own experience, as I've moved to flatter, less supportive shoes, my own injury issues have disappeared, for all intents and purposes.

Thanks. I have been giving the minimal support shoes a lot of thought lately. There is a podcast - I think called Zen-Tri? He runs barefooted. There is a shoe that looks like a foot with toes. I think it's called five fingers. I think Nike has a shoe called free with minimal support.

[Phaedrus49er]

Originally Posted by UltraMarathonerWannabee

Thanks. I have been giving the minimal support shoes a lot of thought lately. There is a podcast - I think called Zen-Tri? He runs barefooted. There is a shoe that looks like a foot with toes. I think it's called five fingers. I think Nike has a shoe called free with minimal support.

Five Fingers is made by Vibram. Joe Stankowski blogged about his experience at a YMCA wearing the Vibrams, which I thought was pretty funny (and sadly typical). The Frees have been discussed extensively but I think are falling out of favor as they're discontinuing version 3.0 (the closest to barefoot they offer). Vivo Barefoots are an option but expensive and a little risky since they don't sell at brick-and-mortars. A quick search for "flat shoes" or even "footstrike" on this site will give you some other shoe-related discussions.