squat/deadlift 3x15 problem...

[lifter85]

Not sure if anyone else has experienced this, but...

When I do 3x15 w/ 30 sec. rest of squats (I switched it to front squats btw), I find going SO quickly over to deadlifts, my lower back is so tight and sore that I have to drop the weight down immensely to a point where i'm not getting actually any real muscle stimulation, but instead just doing the lightest weight possible to make sure that my lower back feels like it's not about to snap. I feel the only reason for this problem is the short rests, because the lower back is constantly under a lot of tension for all 6 of those reps.

p.s. i like to think i have good form too b/c i have a video of me pulling 420x5 w/ my back straight for all reps, and have a hard time believing that only 95lbs for a deadlift is almost too much for me to handle on my lower back by the time the 2nd set of deadlifts comes around.

[Cynic]

Are you supersetting the squats and deadlifts? If so, you're wrong.

[Moveon]

Question: How do you know you have dropped the weight to the point where you have "no muscle stimulation"? How would you know that? If your muscles are worked hard in one exercise, it's expected you wouldn't be able to use the same loads you might if the exercise order were changed. If (as an exaggeration) you can only do an exercise with the bar only (stripped of weight), then that's all you can do. Just because you aren't lifting what you think you should be able to lift or can lift when the exercise order is switched, doesn't mean you aren't getting good benefit from the lift.

There's a lot about NROL that goes against traditional lifting wisdom. I think one of the hardest things about NROL isn't what happens on the gym floor--it's what happens between your ears.

.

[lifter85]

Originally Posted by Cynic

Are you supersetting the squats and deadlifts? If so, you're wrong.

no i'm not, doing them 3x15 squats, then moving on to 3x15 deadlifts.

[lifter85]

Originally Posted by Moveon

Question: How do you know you have dropped the weight to the point where you have "no muscle stimulation"? How would you know that? If your muscles are worked hard in one exercise, it's expected you wouldn't be able to use the same loads you might if the exercise order were changed. If (as an exaggeration) you can only do an exercise with the bar only (stripped of weight), then that's all you can do. Just because you aren't lifting what you think you should be able to lift or can lift when the exercise order is switched, doesn't mean you aren't getting good benefit from the lift.

There's a lot about NROL that goes against traditional lifting wisdom. I think one of the hardest things about NROL isn't what happens on the gym floor--it's what happens between your ears.

.

i agree with you, but here's how i know that i should be able to do more...my lower back tightens up so much by going so quickly between exercises that it has no time to rest, therefore i have to lower the weight tremendously just to accomodate my sore lower back. as well, how do i know by another reason? i could feel my lower back aching just squatting down to pick up my water bottle (certainly you don't think someone who has deadlifted over 460 for 1 rep should have a problem picking up his water bottle, right?) i understand what you're saying regarding it being a different style of training, but this occurance is different. i should also mention the soreness goes away once i get over to the split squats and step ups, so it's not a chronic/injurous type pain to worry about, it's jsut that the lower back has absolutely no time to rest between any of it (squats / deadlifts are hard on the lower back no matter how good of form), so therefore the rest of my body has to compensate for the lower back. Trust me when I say that it's not hard for the rest of my body to pick up 95 lbs.

[lifter85]

Originally Posted by Moveon

Question: How do you know you have dropped the weight to the point where you have "no muscle stimulation"? How would you know that? If your muscles are worked hard in one exercise, it's expected you wouldn't be able to use the same loads you might if the exercise order were changed. If (as an exaggeration) you can only do an exercise with the bar only (stripped of weight), then that's all you can do. Just because you aren't lifting what you think you should be able to lift or can lift when the exercise order is switched, doesn't mean you aren't getting good benefit from the lift.

There's a lot about NROL that goes against traditional lifting wisdom. I think one of the hardest things about NROL isn't what happens on the gym floor--it's what happens between your ears.

.

btw, you ask how i know my muscles aren't being stimulated that much, and that i need to think about the fact that it's obvious my strength would go down from lift to lift...here's a good reason....

the program i did before, i'd start off with 5x5 squats with about 225-245, then 1x15 burn set of squats, then do leg press for a few sets, then go back to stiff legged deadlifts, 225-245lbs x 15 for 3 sets. there's your answer right there. trust me when i say again that it's not cuz my legs can only do 95 lbs of deadlifting, it's cuz of my lower back extreme tightness/soreness.

[gibson57guy]

I wouldn't really call it a problem.. I would call it normal

I don't know why but when you get into the 3 x15's it a whole different ball game than say 5 x 5's... I can do 5 x 5 x 205 followed by 5x5x230lbs deadlift with shrug no problem... but can barely do 3x15x115 squats followed by 3x15x120 deadlift with shrug... probably has something to do with difference in doing 30 combined reps with five 90 second breaks verses 90 combined reps with five 30 second reps...

I think it's more of an endurance thing where our legs aren't as strong for the duration as we think they are and therefore we unknowingly compensate with our back.. or it's just an endurance thing with our backs..

All I know is I hate and love these things at the same time