Shoulders

[massiveian]

When i do chest, I can feel my chest muscles squeezing together
When i do back, I can feel my back working and the muscles tensing
When I do...... you get the picture
(people have often called this the mind muscle connection, ie feeling and focusing on the muscle in use).

But when I do shoulders (ie shoulder press movements), i feel nothing, i literally just move the weight. Does anyone else have this problem? I've played with form and weight, but after years of training I can still do nothing but move the weight.

When i've trained with people new to the gym, i have put my fingure in between there chest/ back and told them to try and squeeze it, forcing them to use the muscle, when training biceps ive asked them to imagine doing a bicep pose with the weight... these seem to have done the trick.

Can anyone apathise with me?
Does anyone have any tips?

[Hunter]

A Waterbury article I read on T-Nation recently talked about the lack of a mind-muscle link being common with the calves. The technique he described to improve the connection was to do standing unweighted calf raises while feeling the muscle for areas that aren't fully engaged. Concentrate on those areas while trying to engage them. You could do the same with the shoulders while doing db shoulder presses, lateral raises, front raises, etc. With the calves, he recommended doing this 3x/day - may be a bit excessive for the shoulders? I don't know, but give it a try.

[Mandos]

I take from your question an unsaid warrant: "There is value in 'feeling' muscles during work."

Why is that? If we are looking at a performance model of training, then what significance is there in 'feeling' a part?

I competed as a powerlifter for two years, and during that time, I followed performance based protocols--the steering points for the protocols were all work based: weight, number of reps and sets, periods variation of work, I lifted increasingly heavy weights. At no point did I feel a "part," but rather performed a compound motion: picking up a heavy loaded bar.

Based on correlative empirical research, anecdote, and noetic belief, I have done visualization--I mention this because I do think what we think matters. I just don't know of a reliable source for how 'feeling' a part plays a functional role in performance.

[massiveian]

I appreciate what your saying Mandos, but i just want to explore the possibility that ‘feeling the muscle’ is a key element in muscle growth.

I have engaged in many types of training (including powerlifting), but my background is mainly bodybuilding, one/two body parts per day and as a result i find it ridiculously hard to give in to this type of training, however i'm doing my best to embrace it. As part of this i'm trying to improve every area of my workouts and my gains.

I can only go from my own experience...
when i used to 'do full chest workouts, I'd feel every rep, at the end of the workout my chest was full of blood, tight as possible and massive, the next few days my chest would ache. I have never experienced any of this during shoulders. I simply do the reps, get out the gym and feel fine the next day. Now I appreciate there are many factors involved in muscle groth, genetics probably being one of the biggest, but i cannot simply dismiss this coincidence.

[Mandos]

I'd be interested in seeing if there is any empirical research on this subject--anyone know?