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The New Rules of Lifting - The Original Based on the original book by Lou Schuler with workout programs by Alwyn Cosgrove

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Old 05-02-2007, 07:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Strength II Substitutes

Thanks, Lisa, for your suggestion to do Strength II. Given that my wife and I work out in our "gym" in the basement, and she is not strong enough to provide a reliable spot for me with heavier weights, SII is the better choice. In looking over the exercises for SII, however, I see two exercises that are a problem. Both are in Workout C, where we lack the equipment to do the exercises. I do not have a rack, therefore I need a substitute for the Rack Deadlift. It looks a bit like a Romanian DL so maybe that would be a substitute? Seven sets of pulls looks like a lot though. I also lack the equipment to do back extensions. Any ideas for substitutes? Also, just curious why Dumbbell upper body Russian twists are listed for both Workout B and D. Not to question Alwyn, but why not have one of those be a *lower* body Russian twist? Lisa? Anyone?
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Old 05-02-2007, 08:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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For rack pulls in a basement gym, you can buy some concrete blocks at your local lumber yard to raise the weights sufficiently.

Or you can just lift the blocks . . they're pretty heavy if you get the big ones
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Old 05-02-2007, 08:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks. I just looked at the Rack Deadlift on Pacific Tigers and, DUH, I can see that your suggestion makes sense. I don't need a rack. Any ideas about the Back extension? I liked the supine hip extendions with leg curls in FLII. Would that work? Or, I suppose I could have my wife hold my legs and do a back extension.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I subbed a Good Morning for Back Extension.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
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If you have a swiss ball then you can do a back extension alternative with that. Just tuck the back of your heels or legs under something, I use my bench for example, for leverage.
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:12 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Hey Lynn,

You've gotten some good ideas already.

You've figured out the rack pulls. They are somewhat like RDLs, but you start from the bottom at a dead stop. Just set the weight up on something, blocks or boxes or whatever you've got. I like this video of Tony Gentilcore doing rack pulls. I like the way he finishes the movement with his glutes.

Seven sets isn't too many when you consider the lower rep ranges. Your rack pulls will be heavier than your regular deads. They're fun because of that. You've worked your way up to heavier loads with the previous sets of conventional deads.

Back extensions over a swiss ball with your feet hooked under your flat bench is a set-up that might work. (I'm hunting for a video of that, but haven't found one yet.) Your wife might need to sit on the bench to help hold it steady. Give that a try and if it doesn't work for you then we can talk about substitute exercise choices. Good mornings are similar but they're already in your A workout, so I think I'd hunt for something else just to have a difference exercise choice.

The upper body russian twists are repeated on the upper body days most likely because of the limited abdominal exercise choices offered in the book. A book is limited in how many exercises it can offer and the big lifts were the focus of this book. I think they didn't use the lower body twist because they seem to use it for lower body days. The lower body days use flexion movements (crunch and hanging leg raise) rather than a twist.

If you want to substitute another core movement on one of the upper body days, I think that'd be fine. What do you think you need to work most--core stabilization, resisting twist, side flexion, or something else? The program already has twist and flexion from the top and bottom.
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Old 05-03-2007, 12:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Here's a picture of Craig Ballantyne doing back extensions over a swiss ball. He doesn't even hook his feet under anything, but just places them up against a wall. Lynn, I tried this just now and it feels good. I liked it better when I lifted my knees off the ground a little bit. The top range of motion is to neutral spine. You are not trying to hyperextend your low back. This picture shows the top of the movement.

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Old 05-03-2007, 10:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I looked at Pacific Tiger video and saw a "Glute-Ham Raise" that looked similar to the photo of Craig Ballentyne. Also, Lisa you answered my question before I asked it: what is the difference bwtween a quarter DL and a Romanian DL. From your answer, I assume the idea of the quarter is to allow you to lift heavier weights since you are setting the bar down before lifting it again, right?
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:34 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn46
From your answer, I assume the idea of the quarter is to allow you to lift heavier weights since you are setting the bar down before lifting it again, right?
Yes

A GHR and a back extension are different. You know what a back extension looks like on a back extension machine, right? You bend from the hip joint for a back extension. In the picture I posted above of Craig, he's braced his legs with bent knees (rather than straight legs like you would on the machine), but the movement would still be a forward bend from the hip and the legs would remain locked in place.

In a GHR you are working your hamstrings and the movement is from the knees. The hip joint remains as stationary as possible.
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Now I'm really curious if I have been doing DLs correctly. I have not been setting the bar down after each DL. I lowered it to the ground, but did not set it down. With RDLs I lowered the bar to below my knees. When doing a set of, say 12 reps of DL, do you set the bar down after each lift, then lift again?
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Old 05-05-2007, 10:54 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn46
Now I'm really curious if I have been doing DLs correctly. I have not been setting the bar down after each DL. I lowered it to the ground, but did not set it down. With RDLs I lowered the bar to below my knees. When doing a set of, say 12 reps of DL, do you set the bar down after each lift, then lift again?
You've been doing your DLs correctly Lynn. Some people set the bar down for each rep, but on a set of 12 I wouldn't actually set it down. The load is going to be light enough that you can control the eccentric.

But in this thread we're talking about rack pulls (or NROL calls them rack deadlifts) and this is a bit different. In your S-II program rack pulls are prescribed for 3 sets of 3 reps. They should be very heavy and I would suggest that you set the bar down on the supports between every rep and start each rep from a dead stop--a true deadlift. Make the concentric movement your focus and don't worry so much about controlling the descent. Have fun with the heavy stuff. Pretend you're a powerlifter, lol.
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Old 05-05-2007, 11:21 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I've been trying to follow this advice from NROL: 'Remember to keep the "dead" in deadlift. This means each lift starts with the weight resting on the floor.' When the weight touches the floor I pause for a fraction of a second before next rep, just enough to eliminate momentum.
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Old 05-06-2007, 04:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I am looking forward to the heavier lifts (and fewer reps). Although the 12 reps after two (or is it three, I'll have to look again) sets of four reps might take some of the fun away. The rack DLs look like more fun. I had to LOL at your comment that I pretend that I am a power lifter. I'll be lucky to be pulling 150 lbs. even on the 3 reps. Power lifter I am not. Great suggestions from all who responded thought. The back raises over the ball are the ones I'll do. Pretested personally by Lisa~ no less! Thanks.
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