Squats & static lunges for break-in: Smith or free?
OK, so now I'm putting together an entire year's worth of NROL program and as everyone else, will be starting with Break-In.
And here's already the major problem.
My gym does NOT have a squat rack, only a Smith machine plus a fixed weights barbell rack. I'm currently doing bb front squats for my own current program. For those, I had to clean the weight off the floor, which limited the top weight to around 35 kg (give or take a few kg when dieting).
Recently the set up of the gym was changed, so that the bb rack is nearer to the free weights area and by unracking all of the other barbells, I don't need to clean it anymore.
However, I don't really feel comfortable trying to use it as a squat rack for back squats, for lack of safeties.
Also, right now I'm supersetting front squats with RDLs. This works OKish.
But when I supersetted with static lunges, even when those were done in the Smith machine I felt like dying because both are very taxing on balance, even a Smith static lunge.
For static lunges, maximum weight to be used would be much lower and getting the bb on the back shouldn't pose as much of a problem. Getting it off or finishing the exercise without toppling over is a whole different matter.
For the record, I'm hearing impaired and have serious balancing issues, like an inability to walk over a(n imaginary) white line. Yet, I can squat 100kg in a Smith. Static lunges haven't been done with low reps (40kgx8) but max was like 25kgx25). So, while I can see the importance of balance, it's never been good at any time in my life, and I wonder if it's useful to try and improve it with exercises that can work out to be really dangerous for lack of safeties like in real squat racks/cages. It's not a matter whether I'm going to topple over with lunges, it's a matter of when. E.g. I do this all the time when doing the walking lunge with UB twist as described on p. 69 (been doing those for a couple of months), and after all those weeks I still have trouble with them.
There's option 1:
lazy (wo)man's solution and do both in the Smith , which allows for much higher weights to be used. When paying very close attention to timing it should still be tough.
Option 2:
do free weight squats as goblet squats and do static lunges in Smith
option 3:
do free weight squats but now as bb front squat and do the static lunges in the Smith
option 4:
do back squats in Smith for real heavy lifting and use (light) dumbbells for static lunges
option 5:
do back squats in Smith for real heavy lifting and kill myself by toppling over with a (light) fixed wt barbell (using the fixed weight rack as a no-safeties 'squat rack'
option 6:
kill myself immediately by doing both back squat and static lunges from the fixed weight 'no safeties' squat rack. I'd need to use 2 barbells here to rack and rerack alternatingly and annoy the heck out of other gymusers.
BTW, the free weigths area is about 2-2,5 m x 2-2,5 m with rubber mats and 2 free wt benches. I'm always moving one of these or trying to work behind them if there's 2 other persons working out there.
I just can't see the forest for the trees anymore and would like some input now. Go for a slightly stable method that allows much heavier lifting, or go the wobbly road and use teeny weeny weights.
I would suggest using front squats and DB static lunges. The DB's can be as heavy as you can handle and it's fine to hold them at your sides (making balance less difficult).
So the squats don't have to be (bb) back squats nor do they have to be bb lunges?
As OCD as it seems, I'd rather work things out before I start a program. It's much harder to be flexible at things while in the midst of it. It's been 7 years that I've ever let others design a program for me.
My forum friends told me to do "absolutely no tweaking" as they know me.. tweak-tweak. But then you fall into the other direction, like how it used to be when cooking from recipes : believing everything is set in stone and you have to follow through 100%.
The reason why I still chose NROL is that it will give me freedom from fretting over whether my own plan was designed well enough, and having to tweak it again, when I overtrain for the 999th time.
Its very hard to add much else to what Lisa~ has already said, but I will simply say that I agree with her. I do not like the Smith for a variety of reasons and I think you would be most benefitted from using the DBs.
Newman
__________________
"Branch chainz, bro. Leucine in the sky with diamonds." - Alan Aragon
Then it's going to be front squats. Several others have commented that front squats hit the quads much better. And when there's no safeties, they feel safer as bumping them down and getting out of the way is easier with a front squat.
One just has to know when to tweak and when not to.
There's another question bugging me now. Deadlifts.
The way I've been doing deadlifts sofar, they are never done like explained in NROL. In NROL you squat down for a DL very much like an Olympic lifter squats down to start the C+J (right?). I've never seen a powerlifter do this. They even do sumo deadlifts. Mine is somewhere in between.
And actually, even in the gym I've never seen people squat down to deadlift. Not that this says anything because people's form can suck. And powerlifters aren't form-nazis. Olympic lifters are.
The few times I did squat down I noticed I could barely move the weights I can DL normally.
So, major Q : does one squat down to deadlift or not?
If you don't squat down (at least partially), aren't you doing a Romanian deadlift?
In a regular deadlift at the set-up position, the hips are higher than the knees, put you have to be in a bit of a squat position when you get the weight moving.
Squatting down is a way to get the hips involved, but it diminishes the weight I can deadlift.
It seems that if I don't want to do it an all-out back movement, but still involve hamstrings, the best way is to actually stand a bit higher (on one or 2 plates). Which makes it a kind of Romanian DL. For a RDL I push the but far back and try to keep it there while lifting the weight. Then I also need to step on an aerobic bench and lower it all the way down to the floor to feel any stretch in the hams.
Perhaps it's got to do with the fact that legs are short and without even trying hard I can touch the floor with my fingers. Which explains the plates I tend to put under my feet.
It would be worth it to try a proper squat-DL like described in NROL, but I'm not betting on it that it will improve the weights lifted.
I really like NROL, but the authors did not get to choose the pictures used in the book. The picture of the deadlift used in the book shows the start position way too low into a squat. This guy, if he really started there, would be "squatting the weight up," which is not what you want to do. The text is fine. The picture, not so much.
How high a particular person's hips are depends a great deal on that person's limb length. Too high and you really are just doing an RDL or maybe a SLDL. We do want to do a conventional deadlift. You do bend your knees, but your back will not be as vertical as it is for a squat.
I recommend reading Mark Rippetoe's Analysis of the Deadlift, and then reading it again. I think most all of your questions will be answered.
You are correct to avoid the Smith machine for movements where your core should be stabilizing you (e.g., bench press, squat).
The Smith machine is great for inverted rows, inclined push-ups (or learning a one-arm push-up), a connector for bands for various movements, a low chin-up bar so you can assist the chin-up with your feet, etc.
Does everyone agree though that the Smith Machine is not the best idea for these...?
I avoid using the SM for any exercise but sometimes wonder if I am wrong for doing so...
This thread in the training section got off on a lot of tangents, but there was a lot of discussion about the Smith machine and since you asked, you might even be willing to read through the thread, lol.
@ Lisa : how many books did Rippetoe write? I'm having one of his books on my wish list as I want to learn how to do better programming myself, without omitting important aspects and overtraining myself continuously like I used to do. Which is why I want to take a break of several months (or over a year) and do NROL to unlearn the 'must do 30 sets in order to cram all interesting exercises in' mind set.
I must say that since front squats are quite challenging even at lower weights, that's about the only way how I moved away from the Smith. Despite its' flaws, there's fun to be had from squatting heavy weights. But cleaning a barbell for a front squat is too.
#9 is the one I'll be trying sometime in the near future as I'm currently doing 'Excercises you've never tried before' and bench throws make their appearance in the very last article.
I don't know for sure. Starting Strength is the one I'm familiar with, but don't own. It's on my own wish list.
Quote:
I'm having one of his books on my wish list as I want to learn how to do better programming myself, without omitting important aspects and overtraining myself continuously like I used to do. Which is why I want to take a break of several months (or over a year) and do NROL to unlearn the 'must do 30 sets in order to cram all interesting exercises in' mind set.
You say you want to get more focused in your programs and I think that's smart, but then you say:
#9 is the one I'll be trying sometime in the near future as I'm currently doing 'Excercises you've never tried before' and bench throws make their appearance in the very last article.
So stop doing series 1-5 (although they are all excellent exercises and might have a place once in a while in a program) and get focused on the NROL program. Jumping around is as much of a problem as not being willing to make a substitution when it makes sense to change.
Be careful with bench press throws. They are very tough on the shoulder joint. If you need increased speed to bring up your bench press, maybe they have a place. But most of us are not powerlifters and this exercise might have more contraindications than potential benefits for us. Always consider your goals when you're making exercise choices and make sure the movement fits with your goals and the limitations of your body.
I think you're on the right track to improve the workouts you choose for yourself. Continue to stay focused.
Thanks for the advice Lisa.
Those exercises from T-nations "Exercises you've never tried before" are either done as a separate "muck around and have fun" training on Sunday or done after my normal program with about 2-3 exericises and 2-3 sets at the time. When I don't feel good, I just skip them. Recently I've skipped them for over a week. Before that I did about 5 of them in one separate workout.
Squats & static lunges for break-in: Smith or free?
Linear Mode
