Lou was discussing the concept of " Metabolic Overdrive " and cited Alywn's " afterburn " interval routine in help toward losing fat, with 1 round of intervals being ....
1 minute - " do as high ( a pace ) as you can handle "
2 minutes - moderate pace for 2 minutes
The program is 16 weeks and gradually builds up in rounds per session and sessions per week. At the end of the program, the suggestion is....
Weeks 12 - 16 : " Do 6 rounds, 5 times a week "
I took the " as high as you can handle " intervals to equate to something like 85% - 90% MHR.....close to HIIT in my books. Thing is, I've often heard and read elsewhere that HIIT should only be done no more than 2-3X a week.
So, my question is .....are there any pitfalls, if any - from an " overtaining " perspective - one should be wary of by doing such a version of HIIT...... 5X a week ........for 4 weeks ?
I thought the same thing - I can't imagine doing the NROL weight routines 3x per week and the Afterburn workouts 5x per week, but I guess if you're getting enough good calories and sleeping enough, you could train up to it. Personally, I'm not going to try. 2-3 Afterburns a week is enough for me, but I'm sure there are a few fellow members here that can do it.
I thought the same thing - I can't imagine doing the NROL weight routines 3x per week and the Afterburn workouts 5x per week, but I guess if you're getting enough good calories and sleeping enough, you could train up to it. Personally, I'm not going to try. 2-3 Afterburns a week is enough for me, but I'm sure there are a few fellow members here that can do it.
What is interesting is that this 4 week period of 5X a week HIIT, is preceded by 3 weeks of HIIT at 4X a week !
Your experience is the same one I tend to hear from others I have spoken to on this issue regarding what is an appropriate frequency of HIIT training...what I tend to hear more often than not..... " you should never do HIIT traning more than 2-3X per week "
If that is true - why ?
Last edited by Terra Nova : 04-19-2007 at 09:44 AM.
What is interesting is that this 4 week period of 5X a week HIIT, is preceded by 3 weeks of HIIT at 4X a week !
Your experience is the same one I tend to hear from others I have spoken to on this issue regarding what is an appropriate frequency of HIIT training...what I tend to hear more often than not..... " you should never do HIIT traning more than 2-3X per week "
If that is true - why ?
I'm not sure. I made the comment in reference only to my own ability/condition. Your point leads me to the following question: are HIIT and Afterburn somehow different? To me, they are both forms of interval training, whether you call it "High-Intensity" or "Afterburn." If I'm wrong, I hope someone can clarify the difference.
I'm not sure. I made the comment in reference only to my own ability/condition. Your point leads me to the following question: are HIIT and Afterburn somehow different?
I'm with you - I'm not 100% sure either.
But, it seems to me if you are doing " as much as you can handle " ( as is suggested ) during the work interval for an entire 60 seconds, you must be training at least at 85%+ MHR - again, that seems like HIIT to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
I To me, they are both forms of interval training, whether you call it "High-Intensity" or "Afterburn." If I'm wrong, I hope someone can clarify the difference.
Agreed.
I'm interested to see what the resident experts here on the forum have to say about the adverse consequnces ( if any ) of doing HIIT 4X or 5X a week for 3-4 weeks at a time.
I'm no expert and don't have any studies backing me but I'd guess that HIIT 4-5x a wk +3 resistance training sessions would be hard for most to keep up.
And for the normal person looking for some fat loss I don't think that would be necessary. Besides, most of us don't have that much time to dedicate to it.
HIIT 2xwk plus NROL 3x a week and a CLEAN diet and you should be golden.
"Afterburn" is Alwyn's term for the EPOC effect (excess post exercise oxygen consumption) one gets from weight training and intervals.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
While it doesn't directly address your question about Afterburn's protocols, Alwyn's latest article at T-Nation, The Hierarchy of Fat Loss, does go into more depth about how he prioritizes and uses different modalities for fat loss.
Is it OK to do HIIT on non-workout days? The book gives an impression that the only good time for HIIT is right after weight workouts and doing it at other times is worse than not doing it at all. Is this understanding correct?
Is it OK to do HIIT on non-workout days? The book gives an impression that the only good time for HIIT is right after weight workouts and doing it at other times is worse than not doing it at all. Is this understanding correct?
Understanding not correct. Good to do HIIT after workout - if you can, most(all) of us sometimes can, sometimes cannot.
Is it OK to do HIIT on non-workout days? The book gives an impression that the only good time for HIIT is right after weight workouts and doing it at other times is worse than not doing it at all. Is this understanding correct?
The book does give that impression, but Alwyn said at the Summit that he's changing his thinking on this timeframe. He now thinks that getting the metabolism revved up again while still under the effects of EPOC from the previous day's resistance training is a good thing. He addresses this very briefly in his Hierarchy of Fat Loss article:
Quote:
This study used a circuit training protocol of 12 sets in 31 minutes. EPOC was elevated significantly for 38 hours post-workout.
Thirty-eight hours is a pretty significant timeframe for metabolism to be elevated. If you trained at 9AM until 10AM on Monday morning, you're still burning more calories (without training) at midnight on Tuesday.
Can we compound this with additional training within that 38 hours? No research has been done, but I have enough case studies to believe that you can.
So now he would probably recommend that you do your HIIT on alternate days from your resistance training.
It makes sense that to lose the most fat you'd want to keep the metabolism as jacked as possible. HIIT the next day would serve to do just that and get you better results than a day inbetween with little work.
What you for your HIIT in order to not impact your strength on weight training days is another matter and best left to really smart trainers.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
I'm no expert and don't have any studies backing me but I'd guess that HIIT 4-5x a wk +3 resistance training sessions would be hard for most to keep up. And for the normal person looking for some fat loss I don't think that would be necessary. Besides, most of us don't have that much time to dedicate to it. HIIT 2xwk plus NROL 3x a week and a CLEAN diet and you should be golden. "Afterburn" is Alwyn's term for the EPOC effect (excess post exercise oxygen consumption) one gets from weight training and intervals.
When I mentioned " Afterburn " it was actually in specific refrerence to Alwyns' publication / book " AFTERBURN - Extreme Fat Loss Training " cited by Lou in NROL.
As I said earlier, as part of his 6 program ( cited by Lou ) , Alwyn suggests HIIT interval protocol rounds of 1 minute on ( i.e flat out ) and 2 minutes off. And toward the latter part of the program, he advocates as many as 5 rounds+ per HIIT session. For example, for the remaining 7 weeks of the program, the program calls for 3 weeks doing HIIT 4X a week, and Alwyn wraps up the program with 4 weeks of HIIT 5X a week.
But, I do hear what you're saying ...for most of us concerned about fat loss...2x a weeek is probably more than enough.
What I was trying to do, was to confirm that if someone ' wanted to ' do 3 weeks of HIIT @ 4X a week and 4 weeks of HIIT @ 5X a week, that there is no reason ( from a overall fitness point of view ) that they can't do so ...if they chose to and assuming they have the fitness level to pull it off.
Again, the refrain I've heard most often from what I've read and from sundry trainers over the years is that HIIT sessions shouldn't be done more than 2-3X a week....which seems to contradict part of what Alywn is suggesting ( i.e 3 weeks @4X and 4 weeks @5X ).
Doing an all-out effort for 1 minute is NOT HIIT. HIIT can't last for more than 20 seconds. This just an 'ordinary' interval training.
I was just going to search for Overdrive threads since I wondered whether it was possible to periodize interval training, viz. decrease both the period of the effort as well as the recovery time, so that you can do more intervals.
BTW, last year I consistently worked out every other day but never did any exercise in between, the interval training was always done after the regular workout allowing for a full day of rest.
For the Overdrive I'm not planning to do this on the days in between until the program requires 4 or 5 sessions/week.
Doing an all-out effort for 1 minute is NOT HIIT. HIIT can't last for more than 20 seconds. This just an 'ordinary' interval training.
I was just going to search for Overdrive threads since I wondered whether it was possible to periodize interval training, viz. decrease both the period of the effort as well as the recovery time, so that you can do more intervals.
BTW, last year I consistently worked out every other day but never did any exercise in between, the interval training was always done after the regular workout allowing for a full day of rest.
For the Overdrive I'm not planning to do this on the days in between until the program requires 4 or 5 sessions/week.
Why can't HIIT intervals be more than 20 seconds ?
The reason I ask, is because the landmark study by ( Trembaly ) et. al - the one that is the one most often cited when associating HIIT with optimized fat loss - had work intervals ranging anywhere from short ( 15 seconds to 30 seconds ) to long ( 60 seconds to 90 seconds ). Not only that, they had relatively long rest intervals where heart rates drew back to 120- 130 bpm - which I would put somewhere near 65%+/- MHR.
I fact, when I was doing lactate threshold training for hockey ( during university ) we would go " flat out " ( similar to what Alywn called ' all you can handle ' ) as a work interval for an entire 60 seconds on a treadmill. And I can tell you, we were spent at the end of the work interval - usually at 90%-95% MHR.
So, are you telling me that interval training only qualifies as " high intensity " interval training if it hits a MHR or 95% - 100 % ? And that a 30- 40 second interval at 90%+/- MHR is NOT high intensity ? In other words intense lactate threshold training is not HIIT ?
Just repeating what I've been hearing a gazillion times. I'm both happy and unhappy you tell me that HIIT can be longer as well.
Happy because then a 30-60s interval qualifies as HIIT. Unhappy because it means that I've been overtraining myself big time in the past year. Which only showed when I stopped doing cardio in the sense that I finally wasn't as tired all the time. No wonder when you do 7 HIIT sessions in 2 weeks (lifting+cardio on alternating days).
My preferred method would be to do 30 seconds and get HR up to 155-165bpm and then rest for 90s to let it drop to 120-130 bpm. How does it qualify in intensity when you know that my max HR is 170 and I get out of breath at 160bpm. Interestingly this used to be 150bpm so my VO2 max must have shifted upwards, which pleased me mightily.
Just repeating what I've been hearing a gazillion times. I'm both happy and unhappy you tell me that HIIT can be longer as well.
Happy because then a 30-60s interval qualifies as HIIT. Unhappy because it means that I've been overtraining myself big time in the past year. Which only showed when I stopped doing cardio in the sense that I finally wasn't as tired all the time. No wonder when you do 7 HIIT sessions in 2 weeks (lifting+cardio on alternating days).
My preferred method would be to do 30 seconds and get HR up to 155-165bpm and then rest for 90s to let it drop to 120-130 bpm. How does it qualify in intensity when you know that my max HR is 170 and I get out of breath at 160bpm. Interestingly this used to be 150bpm so my VO2 max must have shifted upwards, which pleased me mightily.
Well if you only get out of breath at 160 and your max is 170, then you seem to be training at an aerobic level at just under 94% MHR level - which means you are incredibly fit and you must be a fat burning machine ! Kudos !
As for defining " high intensity ", I always viewed most " high intensity " sessions to involve being in a state of oxygen deprivation for at least some parts of both the work and rest interval. In other words, in involves anaerobic training. That certainly was the case when training for hockey. Then again, I suppose " high intensity " may be a relative term depending on the context.
In that case I suppose my maxHR would be higher than 170. I just have had very few maxHR tests. Just happened to have seen a Conconi test (sucked because I absolutely didn't fit on the bicycle and my bicycle didn't fit in the stand) and my max there was 170 too when I collapsed. So perhaps it's 175? On the road I've never seen more than 168 if I remember correctly. But something that is quite odd but not uncommon: maxHR on bicycle = lower than maxHR on treadmill.
could be similar to VO2 max varying depending on the exercise used - tends to be better/higher in the chosen sport - e.g. professional cyclist on bike vs treadmill compared to runner on bike vs. treadmill.
for the novice - probably little or no significant difference
Alywn's " Afterburn " intervals - 5X a week ?
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