Galya and Tina have both suggested that I consider subbing goblet squats for front squats in my FL-II workout (A), since I'm finding front squats to be a real pain in the ___.
I've tried the crossed-arms method, and that ground into my collarbone. I tried the arms front, wrists back method, and my wrists were screaming. I can manage low-weight front squats using my canvas lifting straps wound around the Oly bar--that takes the weight off my wrists, and with a towel under it for padding, it's not horrible on my clavicle. But I can't seem to get the weight up, no matter what. Maybe with a great deal of time and practice; but until then, I'd like to add another squat that I can handle with greater fluidity.
So, the goblet squat suggestion: Galya posted a picture of it (from an IronOnline post, I think), and I was wondering if there's a video of it on any of the exercise sites (I googled, but...nothing). I'd like to try it--but I've never seen it done.
Kevin Larrabee posted a wonderful Video of Dan John teaching some lifting techniques at the LA seminar. Here is the link to the video Fitcast.... http://thefitcast.com/?p=108
If memory serves me correctly, Dan demonstrates the Goblet Squat here as a primer. If not, enjoy the video if you haven't seen it before anyhow....
I suppose you could watch Dan demonstrate but if you really wanna see good form check out the three guys near the stairs (Lost Dog, Danny King, and I)
Good luck on the squatting Sona and let us know how it goes.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Do we do a goblet squats in that video? I know he showed us, but I'm not sure it made the video. We do do (hee, hee) a lot of potato sack squats
For the goblets, you need to have something heavy to clutch to your chest, like a db.
Squat down as deep as you can. If you aren't that flexible in the hips and/or ankles, you can hold the db farther out, which puts the center of gravity forward, so you can squat deeper.
If you're trying to increase your hip flexibility to squat deeper, then squat down and pause at the bottom. Shove your elbows into the inside of your knees and use pressure to spread your legs out. Keep pressing until you've counted to some arbitrary number (like 10 seconds, maybe), then stand. Repeat.
Just kidding Newman, I advise Sona to listen & imitate Dan John's example.
Sona, one thing that helps my wife on front squats is to use a smaller bar. She's squatting with 80 but uses the curl bars which is much easier on her wrists and shoulders - she has trouble with a regular olympic bar. Maybe give that a try.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Sona, one thing that helps my wife on front squats is to use a smaller bar. She's squatting with 80 but uses the curl bars which is much easier on her wrists and shoulders - she has trouble with a regular olympic bar. Maybe give that a try.
I just saw your post, Kuri--and this is sooo right! You've no idea how I've yearned to use to EZ curl bar or the preset lighter-weight bars that are smaller (5 feet, I think).
The problem is that I cannot clean them to the appropriate position for a front squat because of a weakness on the left side of my neck. I can back squat up to 135# if it's racked; I'd love to work up to a decent weight on front squats, and I know a smaller (5-foot) bar would help me balancewise. But the squat rack is too wide for the smaller bars; they won't rack there. And there is absolutely nothing else in that gym that I can use to rack the smaller bars to shoulder height (my shoulder height) for an easy lift-off.
So I'm stuck. I have the same problem, theoretically, with using DBs. I cannot clean two 25# or 30# DBs to my shoulders to do front squats that way. I simply need to have them start out at shoulder height.
If only my gym had spotters, or wandering "helpers"--I'd ask someone to hand me the bar (humiliation!).
At this point, I can clean a 40# (preset) bar to my shoulder/neck area to front squat. But that's too easy in every other particular. I need to work to be able to clean 50#, 60#, 70#. And that's a long ways away--if it ever happens.
Kuri, does your wife clean the EZ curl bar at 80#--from, say, her hips or waist up to her shoulders for the front squat?
She can clean 70 (from the floor) but couldn't do 80 comfortably so we put the bar in the highest slot on the curl bar rack so it basically serves as a power rack for her.
Or I hand the bar to her.
You should ask the gym staff - that's what they are paid for.
Hope something works out.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
The problem is that I cannot clean them to the appropriate position for a front squat because of a weakness on the left side of my neck. I can back squat up to 135# if it's racked; I'd love to work up to a decent weight on front squats, and I know a smaller (5-foot) bar would help me balancewise. But the squat rack is too wide for the smaller bars; they won't rack there. And there is absolutely nothing else in that gym that I can use to rack the smaller bars to shoulder height (my shoulder height) for an easy lift-off.
So I'm stuck. I have the same problem, theoretically, with using DBs. I cannot clean two 25# or 30# DBs to my shoulders to do front squats that way. I simply need to have them start out at shoulder height.
can you do something to move your shoulders down to a level you can rack from? For example, can you drop the bar on a bench and then squat to the bench and muscle/roll it up to front squat position and then rise up? Or do same with DBs from a bench or the DB rack? You could maybe use 2 hands to clean the db to left shoulder, and then squat to a bench and get the other db to your right [good] shoulder.
Goblet and Potato Sack Squats
I watched teh Dan John video and have been trying these to warm-up and open up my hips some etc. The problem is that whenever I try to get my posture right I fall over backwards. If I hunch forward I'm fine, but when I try to go "big chest" and pull my shoulders back etc. I end up falling over backwards. I think this would be less of a problem if I WAS holding a dumbell, but am I doing this wrong?
Matt
Remember, I had Dan John standing behind me. He was holding me up by letting me lean on his legs.
You can replicate this effect, somewhat, by putting a swiss ball between your back and the wall. It has enough give to let you do the "big chest" and "buddha belly" routine.
For goblet squats, hold the db as far forward as you need to to counterbalance, then bring it in when you can. If you can. It's pretty hard for me, until I get really loosened up.
I try to work these into my warmup on a squat or deadlift day. On other days, I do some at the end of the workout as part of a little complex of bodyweight exercises. It's sorta like torture, but as long as Congress doesn't add it to the list, I'm okay...
Thanks. I thought maybe I was a freak. I guess that hasn't been totally disproved, but at least I'm not exceptioanlly inflexible or something.
peace,
Matt
can you do something to move your shoulders down to a level you can rack from? For example, can you drop the bar on a bench and then squat to the bench and muscle/roll it up to front squat position and then rise up? Or do same with DBs from a bench or the DB rack? You could maybe use 2 hands to clean the db to left shoulder, and then squat to a bench and get the other db to your right [good] shoulder.
Good heavens, Lisa, this is a brilliant idea! I don't know if I can manage it, but it's worth a very good, concentrated try (series of tries).
I'll get back with a report--I'll try it tonight. Wish me luck!
P.S. James, thanks for the link to the video. I watched it, and I'm sure that goblet squats will be doable for me. The only feeling I get from watching the exercise is that it will not help me work out my front squat problems. Goblets may be a worthwhile addition to the repertoire, but I doubt they can be done (for me) with weight much heavier than whatever DB I can manage to raise/clean to my chest with both hands--and I'm not clear on how they can help me conquer the balance/bruising problem I'm experiencing with front squat form.
Thanks. I thought maybe I was a freak. I guess that hasn't been totally disproved, but at least I'm not exceptioanlly inflexible or something.
peace,
Matt
You may still be! Don't read more into my statement than I really said!
Well, I felt as though I got shot down in flames last night. My mission was to try to find a surface to set the pre-weighted, smaller bar on--something I could get under and set on my shoulders; from there, I hoped to have the proper leverage to rise and work my front squats.
Benches didn't work--they were first. Too low for me. I can get down that low in a squat when I start from a stand, but I couldn't lift heavier than 55# from such a low position to begin with. And I can handle 55# at the squat rack for my fronts, so there was no point.
I looked around for other, higher surfaces...and struck out. I will keep at it--the gym was very crowded last night, so I'm sure I wasn't trying everything.
I still think it's a brilliant idea, Lisa, and I'm not trying to be difficult, really. It's just that unless I feel I've got at least the basics I need to work toward improvement, I lose interest in the exercise. I don't want to injure myself through stupidity--working in an unsafe way. It's important that I find a way to work with a smaller bar that can be plated for weight increases, but I think it needs also to be set in a safe, steady rack that is chest height before I begin the squat.
Anyway, the goblet squats I tried yesterday worked very well--I seem to be flexible enough to go all the way down and up, with steady balance and no hip discomfort. However, again, I'm limited in how much weight I can clean to my chest and clutch. In the end, these felt like good, strong deep knee bends.
Thank you, everyone, for the helpful ideas and advice! When I hit the lottery, I'll hire a trainer for my sessions and have her/him hand me the bars I need. Now, that's luxury!
I'm a little confused on one issue. You can back squat with 135 and an oly bar. Go as light as you need to with the front squats, but use the oly bar in the rack. Balance will come, with time.
If you have a power rack, make sure to set the pins so that you will have confidence to drop the bar when you are in the lowest position, should you need to.
Use front squats with higher reps to get your groove and practice the balance. Later, you can up the weight. Start with the empty bar, if you need to.
I saw that you make "handles" from your straps. That's a good way to do them. It helps my balance and confidence, too.
You might need to do several of these things to boost your confidence and get in your groove.
I'm a little confused on one issue. You can back squat with 135 and an oly bar. Go as light as you need to with the front squats, but use the oly bar in the rack. Balance will come, with time.
Thanks, L.D. I seem to lack your confidence that balance will come--and, with it, higher weights.
However, I have no problem with front-squatting at such low weight (45#, 50#, 55#) whenever front squats are called for. But I will also add in a few back squats--even though they aren't called for in the program--just to get a few heavier-weight reps in to work my legs. Otherwise, all I'm doing is practicing. It's like never getting out of warm-ups.
If I find that I begin to grow more proficient at balance w/ the front squats and can take on more weight, fine. That would be great. But judging from what I've noticed thus far, I'm not feeling all that sure this will evolve. I have two more WOs in Fat Loss II (workout A) to accomplish this. I don't believe (can't remember) Fat Loss III calls for front squats.
However, I have no problem with front-squatting at such low weight (45#, 50#, 55#) whenever front squats are called for. But I will also add in a few back squats--even though they aren't called for in the program--just to get a few heavier-weight reps in to work my legs. Otherwise, all I'm doing is practicing. It's like never getting out of warm-ups.
Good idea Keep doing them as part of your warm up, even adding weight to the bar at some point.
Most people underestimate the amount of work they can do as part of a warm up and not be wiped out. When I'm working on mobility, I might warmup for 15 minutes on body weight squats, lunges, and hip bridges before ever getting into the weight room for my actual warmup.
Front squats with the bar will only help you get ready for the back squats to come, later in the workout.
I've done 2-db squats for a while but these aren't real front squats, so back to goblet squats.
Am I doing something wrong by letting the db 'sit' right in front of my abdomen instead of clutching it to my chest? I'm finding the lower position much easier for balance.
Afterwards, I'll go back to the regular back squats as like you said, the weight simply is too low to tax the legs really hard.
Goblet squat video anywhere?
It would have helped had I been there to meet everyone...
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