I'm doing HT1 and today I did workout B 3x15 for the second time (almost died both times ). Both of the times I've done these workouts my lower back gives out before my legs do. By the time I'm half-way through the DLs it starts to hurt and feel really tight so I end up doing fewer reps or taking longer breaks. I try to watch my form as much as possible and from what I can tell I'm doing things right.
I went with lighter weights today but still ran into this problem. I could go even lighter but then I wouldn't be fully challenging my legs.
I know Lou talks about this in the FAQ but he addresses it by saying the heavy loads are quite far appart. My problem is not the heavy (5x5) days, but the high reps (15).
You are always going to be limited by your weakest link. If your back is your weak link, then that is what will limit your loads in this program.
When you take your week off after H1, think about doing some remedial core work to bring up your low back's ability to stabilize during the big lifts. Do lots of planks, side planks, elbow touches, hip mobility stuff, and core challenges like renegade rows. That stuff would be ok to do during an off week or as a short couple of week transition program before your next NROL program.
I'm in H1 too so I hear what you're saying. By the last set of deads my back is shot. Try going a little light on the squats and the deads. It's impossible to use heavy loads on 3x15 days--I think the focus is on endurance fibers.
__________________
Audentes Fortunas Juvat
"Focus on making the 5 lifts stronger and getting enough food. There will be plenty of time to worry about glycemic indexes, PERs, and Bulgarian Split squats later. Much later."-Mark Rippetoe
same here dude. the squats feel alright. then when I start the deads It all goes to down hill. Haven't been using high rep ranges in such a long time does things to your muscles endruance
I'm in the same boat. I look at my training log and say "hey, I can do 5 more lbs on the squat" and then I end up tanking on the deadlifts and the superset. Lighter loads is the way to go. I pretty much try to never sacrifice form and if my back starts hurting, then I know that I am going to start rounding my back into more of a stiff-legged deadlift.
I know what you mean. THe first time i did the 3X15 i bombed it and barely got the the split squat/step-up superset. My back was soooo sore. I never felt anything like it. You just need to keep working at it and try to improve from workout to workout. Now after the third time i did the 3X15 workout, i've improved so much. I feel less fatigued and am able to do squats and deadlifts back-to-back with more weight. Just look to improve. That's all you can ask from yourself
I agree with pretty much everybody above. I just want to add that I've been doing some foam rolling for my lower back, doing a lot of hip mobility work at random times and also sleeping with a small pillow under lower back and one under lower legs. All this seems to help.
If you think your form is good, then lightening the weight is the only way to go. I have found though that after squats, I really have to force myself to bend my knees deeper on the deads while keeping my upper body solid (more upright, tight, natural curve, etc) and to keep my weight seriously back on my heels.
Same problem! Only lifting for over a year, I have always heard it is not good to do squats and deads back to back. However, I do this routine with lighter weight and my back gives out on the deads toward the end and my form slips. That is an accident waiiting to happen. Just read Stewart McGill's back book! I'll just have to use really light weight.
It's not just an issue with high reps. I just did 6 x 3 DL in HTII and I tried using a load that would be heavy enough to max out my legs after 3 reps - BIG MISTAKE! My lower back is screaming right now and my form went completely to shit. I should have stopped.....stupid.
I've found DL to be way more of a "package deal" than squats. It's not about how strong your legs are, because they're most likely not your weakest link, like Lisa said. Traps, lower back and forearms will die before your legs.
I was lucky enough to learn my lesson without hurting myself.
Can someone suggest an alternative to the Deadlift on HP1? For the first time in over a year, I got a different kind of pain below my waist in the lower area of my back. This is not a muscle pain. I am not that young and so will not risk my back supersetting squats and deads, two of the comprehensive/difficult lifts in weightlifting. I have muscle soreness but never this type of dull discomfort.
Bent over rows are too upper-body and too similar to cable-seated rows that you're doing on upper body day. Besides, you might find that the lower back gives out before your lats and traps too. Anyway, many peopel have suggested single leg options to me and I think they might be the best for you too, although it will be interesting to see how the BSS/SU supersets goes afterwards. I'd try the "king" or single leg- deadlift that Lisa suggested I do as a sub for Step-ups. Single-leg Romanian dead lift might be better actually.
Thank you so much mhunter! I wiill do the single leg dead which of course will be a balancing act but much safer. I don't have problems with balance so this will do just fine.
I am not that young and so will not risk my back supersetting squats and deads, two of the comprehensive/difficult lifts in weightlifting. I have muscle soreness but never this type of dull discomfort.
!
just fyi, the squats and deads in hyp1 are supposed to be straight sets (unless i'm reading it wrong).
like i mentioned earlier in this thread, lighten the load and do single legged stuff.
__________________
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Thanks everyone! I did not know the difference between straight and superset so this will make a huge difference. I am glad I popped back into this forum. I had gone an entire year with out any injuries until I started supersetting deads and squats so I was a little (very) disappointed that one of the industry leaders would suggest such a routine. Now I see how the lifts should be done! Thanks!
Thanks for all your responses. I'll go with lighter loads and try to perfect my form. I guess it's good to see I'm not the only one with this problem .
With higher reps and lighter loads, I see people going faster; trying to hurry up and get through the set before something gives out (forearms? back? I don't know). Remeber, Deadlift mean that you are picking 'dead' weight off of the floor for each rep. Make sure you are not just getting the weight close to the floor, but all the way down on the floor. Slow down a little bit, bend your knees and get your hips down at the bottom and make sure you lock your hips out at the top of the lift - very important.
These little details helped me get through the 3x15s. What you might notice, as I did, is that you will go from a sore back to a very sore a.., uh, glutes.
HT1: Low back limiting leg loads?
). Both of the times I've done these workouts my lower back gives out before my legs do. By the time I'm half-way through the DLs it starts to hurt and feel really tight so I end up doing fewer reps or taking longer breaks. I try to watch my form as much as possible and from what I can tell I'm doing things right.
I wiill do the single leg dead which of course will be a balancing act but much safer. I don't have problems with balance so this will do just fine. 
Linear Mode
