NROL push/press sub

[tkinsley]

I sucked it up and did BB push presses today, but my shoulder girdle was very very unhappy. Any good substitutes, anyone? I could always go back to DBs, but this is the first week I've had any creaking protests. Getting old sucks.

Also, I did DB p/p during break-in, so I would love to do something other than this.

Thanks, all.

TK


(Now get out there and VOTE!)

[Cynic]

Do you have a medical issue?

If not, perhaps lower the weight.

[tkinsley]

No medical issues other than years of microtrauma from lifting, but no true injuries. I seem to have some real biomechanical issues with a few specific lifts for some reason--I have a sort of jacked up shoulder alignment thanks to 10 years and counting on active duty and being forced to carry everything over my left shoulder so as to be able to return/initiate salutes, so I have a right shoulder that is anteriorly rotated and a left shoulder that is higher in the horizontal plane because of this.

Haha, so I guess indeed I DO have a medical issue here.

The weight itself is not difficult for me. I can press 40-45 lb dbs for sets of 8-10 on plain db presses, so I would think 70 lbs on a BB would be reasonable. I just frankly don't feel a damned thing when I get much below 65 lbs.... damn, I wish I was in my twenties. My body was much more forgiving

Thanks, cynic.

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by tkinsley

damn, I wish I was in my twenties.

There's a lot of thing I wish I were and were not, but that's neither here nor there. The best I can recommend is doing some remedial work to even things out more.

I find I can do more than 2x the DB when using the bar since both arms/hands/sides work synergistically to accomplish the task.

Unilateral work w/ DBs should help, but if it's not, you may want to consult a specialist.

[MindPower]

Originally Posted by tkinsley

I sucked it up and did BB push presses today, but my shoulder girdle was very very unhappy. Any good substitutes, anyone? I could always go back to DBs, but this is the first week I've had any creaking protests. Getting old sucks.

Also, I did DB p/p during break-in, so I would love to do something other than this.

Hi TK

not sure if this will help, but it works for me,
I have been using my curl bar for military presses for a while now,
the slight change in hand position/angle seems to take any strain off
my shoulder, it also works well for close grip bench

hope this helps
Mark

[Lisa~]

Mindpower, Good suggestion and she might want to at least give that a try.

If you still need a substitution, what aspect of the lift do you want to focus on with the substitution? If you want the metabolic disruption aspect as the main focus, then using a DB clean or DB snatch might be good choices. They are both very metabolic and are power movements (a push press is also a power movement). Even a DB swing would fit into this category.

If you want the vertical push aspect to be most important, then other variations on the DB overhead press might work: single-arm alternating DB OH press or possibly go back to the DB push press again.

If you want to change the focus to something that will assist with shoulder health, then you might consider a DB raise in the scapular plane (thumbs up, no higher than shoulder height), or maybe a cable PNF diagonal. Neither of these will be as taxing as the push press.

[tkinsley]

Thank you everyone! Wow. I have to say it again: this is a fabulous board

I want both the metabolic disruption as well as the direct shoulder work... I think I will try the ez curl option first and then, if that doesn't go well, I will switch to a db snatch (I love, love, LOVE these types of lifts anyway). Now, forgive my ignorance... I haven't heard of a db swing, but will google it now.

Now, DB raise in the scapular plane--what is the primary muscle working here? Is this scapular stabilization?

Thank you again--

Tina

[Lisa~]

Here's a description of a DB swing:
http://www.trainforstrength.com/ex-4.shtml

Yes, the DB raise in the scapular plane is mostly about scapular stabilization.

If you can do a DB snatch without shoulder pain and enjoy that movement, then I like that choice best of all.

[kuri]

I agree that the DB snatches would fit the metabolic bill. High reps of those never fail to leave my heart pounding. Easier on the shoulder girdle too.

[tkinsley]

Thanks, Lisa (and cynic, and mindpower, and kuri)--I did DB snatches today and woooooooooooooooo boy, was my heart rate up there! I did still notice a very weird feeling with the left shoulder... not pain, but felt a bit unstable.

Aside from the thumbs up db raises in the scapular plane... any other scapular/stabilizer exercises that anyone has to suggest.... I'm all ears. There is something out of whack with the left side of my body in general, which has gotten progressively worse over the last ten years with the insistence of the damned military that one MUST leave the right shoulder unburdened so that one's rank is visible and salutes may be returned and rendered.
Gotta love common sense

Thanks again,

Tina

[Lisa~]

I hope you'll purchase Mike Robertson and Bill Hartman's Inside-Out: The Ultimate Upper Body Warm-up. It covers everything you will want regarding your shoulders. You can use the movements as a warm-up, but they are also great to do on non-lifting days to work on improving your shoulder stability.

[UConnJulie]

It might be a good idea to get a thorough evaluation from a physical therapist who deals primarily with sports-type injuries (think throwing athletes and such). I hate to say it but not all PTs are created equal. I have chronic shoulder problems from a congenital laxity exacerbated by sports (swam competitively for many years ... mostly butterfly and freestyle; and was a fast-pitch softball pitcher in high school). I have had surgery on my left (dominant) shoulder which has helped significantly. I have finally gone to a sports clinical specialist physical therapist (SCS after their name), and we have been working on all sorts of movement patterns with my scapulae that have helped not only my shoulders, but my neck as well.

You can search for one here.

[Lisa~]

I'm glad you liked the DB snatches. I love those too.

Without knowing exactly what's wrong with your shoulder (you have not even said where you feel pain), I can at least recommend these two movements. They will probably help and they certainly won't hurt you.

A prone lower trap raise is described near the end of this article. Basically any kind of facedown Y movement will work the lower traps. You can lie on the floor, on a flat bench, or on an inclined bench like this description.

Bone Crackin' Bench, Advanced Training to Boost Your Bench Press

The push-up plus is just a scapular push-up. Here's a little video of the push-up plus.

Push-up Plus

I hope those help you get started, but please buy the I/O DVD.

[tkinsley]

You're right, Lisa, I didn't specify... d'oh!
It hurts--hurt may not be the best term, more like feels very unstable and uncomfortable--on the lateral border of my upper scapula... also maybe a bit in the rear delt as well. It's sort of hard to localize.

There is some very odd alignment going on there; I have a couple of show pics that show I am a bit twisted and one shoulder is more anterior than the other. I will try to find them and attach... I'll apologize for the quality now, they weren't taken by me.

Anyway, thanks Julie for the PT links... there are three listed in San Antonio to check out, and Lisa I will definitely check out the IO.

I'll post those pics when I can find the darned things, they're on here somewhere...

[Lisa~]

If you do find the pics and want to get more into this topic, you need to post your questions in the Injury Forum. This will get outside my area of knowledge really fast! Shoulders are complicated! Julie might can help you, but she posts in the Injury Forum too.