Deadlifts 2x25, are you kidding? - JP Fitness Forums

Phate · 08-02-2006, 03:25 PM

I'm doing H2 and just the thought of doing 25 deadlifts hurts. I was curious if anyone here has done this phase yet and wondered what percentage of there 1RM they used. As an example, yesterday was my 6x3 day and I did 225x3, 245x3, 265x3, 275x3, 295x3, 295x3.
I felt pretty good at the end and should have gone for 305 on my last set.

Lost Dog · 08-02-2006, 07:14 PM

There's almost no way to predict your 25RM from your 3RM.

It's a so different (endurance vs. strength, sorta).

On set one, start with 135 and hope for the best!

Jason B · 08-02-2006, 08:02 PM

I love NROL, but I think that's one of the downfalls of mass programming like this. You want to change up the variables for each workout each week, but some sets, reps, and tempo's just don't work with certain exercises. And I think Alwyn would tell you that himself, it's almost to impossible to create a program for everyone that's easy to read and understand (which I think is huge for NROL, I think it's one of the best books for beginners out there), but still take care of little things like that. You want to show the defined, layed out set/rep/tempo changes each week and how to rotate them through each workout, but you can't exactly put asterisks by everything and say these reps won't work with this exercise or this tempo won't work with that exercise, or something like that. In my opinion, you have to use judgement here, and my judgement says 25 reps for a deadlift is waaay to many. Personally I'd never go above 8 with deadlifts, and even that's pushing it for me.

So if I were doing this program, sticking with the intent of it, the workouts for this day in H2 for the deadlift are 6,3,25, and then 12 reps. For this exercise, I would change it to 3,1,8, and 6, respectively. Or you could change this exercise to a squat variation, since it is the only lower body day, and keep with the high reps (I believe squats are a little more forgiving than deads for high reps). Keep in mind this is just me talking, I'm a low rep freak, anything above 10 is too rich for my blood on big compound exercises. If you try out the 25 rep deads and like it, go for it, just my advice here. The gist is I think it's OK to tweak programs a little to your liking, individualization is huge, but don't overhaul anything or make unecessary changes just because you like this exercise better than that or because a 421 tempo is too hard, then you're not even doing the program anymore. Remember, methods may change but principles never do.

Lost Dog · 08-02-2006, 08:11 PM

I don't like 2x25 DLs because I don't like to hear the barbell clang on the ground 50 times.

I can do 25 DLs, just fine. I can also do 1-3 just fine. It's when I get to 6-12 that I have issues with it. 6-12 is heavy enough that you should really concentrate on form, setting the weight down between each rep. With 25 reps, you don't really have to worry, as the weight is pretty light.

Phate · 08-02-2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason B

I love NROL, but I think that's one of the downfalls of mass programming like this. You want to change up the variables for each workout each week, but some sets, reps, and tempo's just don't work with certain exercises. And I think Alwyn would tell you that himself, it's almost to impossible to create a program for everyone that's easy to read and understand (which I think is huge for NROL, I think it's one of the best books for beginners out there), but still take care of little things like that. You want to show the defined, layed out set/rep/tempo changes each week and how to rotate them through each workout, but you can't exactly put asterisks by everything and say these reps won't work with this exercise or this tempo won't work with that exercise, or something like that. In my opinion, you have to use judgement here, and my judgement says 25 reps for a deadlift is waaay to many. Personally I'd never go above 8 with deadlifts, and even that's pushing it for me.

So if I were doing this program, sticking with the intent of it, the workouts for this day in H2 for the deadlift are 6,3,25, and then 12 reps. For this exercise, I would change it to 3,1,8, and 6, respectively. Or you could change this exercise to a squat variation, since it is the only lower body day, and keep with the high reps (I believe squats are a little more forgiving than deads for high reps). Keep in mind this is just me talking, I'm a low rep freak, anything above 10 is too rich for my blood on big compound exercises. If you try out the 25 rep deads and like it, go for it, just my advice here. The gist is I think it's OK to tweak programs a little to your liking, individualization is huge, but don't overhaul anything or make unecessary changes just because you like this exercise better than that or because a 421 tempo is too hard, then you're not even doing the program anymore. Remember, methods may change but principles never do.

I agree with most of what you wrote here. I had never gone above 6 reps on deads before starting NROL. Having said that, I have been sticking to the programs and really liking them and seeing great results. So I figure I'll try the 2x25 as it's written. I was thinking of doing RDL's if the conventional feel like to much.
Thanks for the feedback.

tropic · 08-03-2006, 11:47 AM

I was skeptical of the 2x25 deads, but the weight is so light that your form can still be tight. You definitely get a good cardio workout and some looks in the gym, but I've gotten great results from Alwyn's programs, so I'm sticking to it for now. Now it's a bit harder to do snatch grip on these, but I guess that's the point. I used to be a low rep guy until Alwyn's programs and I've actually had better results from Hyp 1 than any other low rep program I've tried..even ABBH 1 and TBT.

eastcoastsurfer · 08-03-2006, 12:19 PM

I see the DL like any other exercise. 2x25 is fine if you get the weight right and keep your form down. You could even make an argument that lower back endurance is critical for almost any type of workout you do. So that 2x25 DL is something people should have been thinking about doing anyways.

IMHO, the real torture is the 2x25 lunge. 25 reps on each leg w/o stopping is enough to collapse anyone...

kuri · 08-03-2006, 12:35 PM

Try the 2x15 Bulgarian split squats supersetted with step-ups... makes me hurt just thinking about it.

I've done the high rep DLs too and was fine. As others have said keep it tight.

I was seeing other dimensions by the end of the set & didn't even have to drop acid! Alwyn is a genius

eastcoastsurfer · 08-04-2006, 11:50 AM

Kuri,
You're bringing back nightmares from that workout with the slip squat/setup superset.

Cynic · 08-04-2006, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuri

Try the 2x15 Bulgarian split squats supersetted with step-ups... makes me hurt just thinking about it.

I learned today just how weak my legs are. 2x15x105 back squats, followed by static lunges@2x15x45 (attempted) supersetted with 2-pt rows. I had to downgrade to 30lbs for the second set of SLs and still didn't complete them.

My legs were trembling cheese sticks for fours after.

BamaDave · 08-04-2006, 03:42 PM

I think your plan to try to tackle the two sets of 25 reps is best. A lot of people have been following the NROL programs with excellent results. These are not easy workouts - every one of them will leave you feeling wiped out -- especially workouts with high rep squats and deadlifts. Don't question the master!!

Phate · 08-08-2006, 01:19 PM

OK, I just finished the 2x25 lowerbody workout. First set I did 135. Got all 25 reps without resting. At the 18-25 rep range my lower back started to get sore. I felt my form was still solid, shoulders were back. It was just like my muscles were saying "What the f are you doing? You were supposed to stop at 10." Finished the first set, exhuasted. Knew I'd never get another 25 at that weight. Stripped the bar down to 95. It took about 35-40 sec instead of 30. Started my second set. Got 10 reps. Had to rest for about 5 seconds. Got 8 more. Had to rest for about 10 sec. Finished the set. My lower back was very sore at the end of the set, but felt fine a couple of minutes later. I felt as if I had just done 15 minutes of hard sprints. I rested about 5 minutes before starting the lunges/step ups. I just did BW for both.
Entire workout lasted probably 30 min. I feel pretty good right now, just wore out, exhausted, not really sore. I'm sure tomorrow will be a different story. Thanks for all the advise everybody.

slimsaw00 · 08-08-2006, 08:29 PM

high rep sets are a PAIN! I remember doing some sets of just 15 while doing "Total Body Training" earlier this year and I about died. Its just so hard to judge how much weight you should be using. I dont envy the 2x25's

-Matt