Got the book and read the whole thing. I like the idea of having different phases planned out (fat loss, hypertrophy, strength...and so on), but to be honest, to me, some of the exercises are a little goofy. I've been lifting for about 20+ years, but didn't see any real progress until the last 3 years. Got off the Weider pro-bodybuilding kick and started a more sensible program. Anyway, I'm not real keen of the Bulgarian lunges and t-pushups and swiss ball work... I've been doing a full body workout 2-3 times/week with basic exercises like squat, deads, bench press, military press, pull-ups, rows..nothing fancy and no machines. I also like to do HIIT cardio at least twice per week (I'm a Marine so I have to run). I'm just not sold on some of the exercises. Anyone else feel this way? I'm not flaming the program, but I'm thinking of just using the book as an outline and inserting my own exercises. Any suggestions?
I just started weightlifting and did a lot of reading (progressed through abs diet, burn the fat, and all variations). I concluded that what suited me and my goals was a full body workout 3x a week. Since I'm starting quite fit already (tennis singles 3x/week, running, good cardio background) and just wanted to do "weights," nrol fit the bill. I think that there are tons of similar exercises around as I see you're doing; the idea behind the book is what matters, I think. my 2cents..
Sometimes the exercises you avoid or have avoided are the ones that could yield better/different results than what you are getting now. Anyways, if you are happy with what you have and the way you got there, why bother with a new book or approach. Most of us reach for something new when we feel bored by self-coaching or when we are stuck in the current program.
Do you think that all rotational work is worthless? It may not have much direct impact on making you huge. If that is your only concern, I can see some apprehension, but I think it is misguided. I thought the value of rotational work was a big piece of the book?. What don't you like about those exercises(I am not sure what swiss ball work is in the book)? I think that unilateral lower body work is one of the most important pieces of a program. Squats and Deads are great, but there is a lot of value to the unilateral work. It is the equlivent to dumbbell work for the upper body, but even much more valuable in the way it addresses some of the muscles of the hips.
Adding 2 "silly" exercises to each workout definitely won't have a negative impact on your development. Give them a fair chance, and I bet you will be surprised. Alwyn knows his stuff, and did not include these exercises just to make a program that is different - everything is there for the value he gets out of it. And he is a no-nonsence trainer.
Galya is right, it is human nature to play to our own strengths, even when improving our weakness would benifit us the most. That is one of the biggest advantages of having someone else tell us what to do.
I consider myself a student of exercise. I'm always reading books and forums on fitness and like to learn and try new things. The book looks promising, but to be honest doing swiss ball hip flexor leg curls things just isn't very manly. And when you are a Marine, you don't want your guys seeing you do pelvic thrust "girlie" exercises. Not trying to be offensive, but let's face the facts. My goal right now is to drop some bodyfat. I guess I was just wondering how strict most folks are with the exercises prescribed.
umm ok like I can see you maybe seeing rolling around on the floor with a big ball as "girlie" as you call it.
But bulgarian lunges? I assume we are talking bulgarian split squats here?
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I think staying un-injured and more functional is pretty manly. That's just me though. If that means doing a few practical, functional "girlie" exercises, than cool with me. But I also could give 2 sh!ts about what people think of me, if they have a problem with the exercises I'm doing, then they aren't really my friends. I tend to think Lou and Alwyn are pretty damn smart (much smarter than me!) and have put exercises in there for a reason.
On a different note, thank you for your service. We all really do appreciate the sacrifices you all make. Thanks!!!
PGJ, I echo what Eric said: Thanks for serving our country. Our servicemen are very much in my thoughts.
Since my father was a Marine drill sergeant, I appreciate what you say about the importance of appearances.
I don't know if this helps, but I can assure you that the biggest mofos in the NFL and other sports do the exercises in this book. I worked on Core Performance with Mark Verstegen, and when I visited his facility in Tempe, Arizona, I saw NFL linemen doing stuff that's even odder-looking than what we have in NROL.
Another point is that these exercises may look less than manly, but they are anything but girly. They're really hard to do. The supine hip extension/leg curl (SHELC) is a challenging exercise to get right. It's not about hip thrusts, it's about building strength and stability in your body's strongest muscles.
If your troops see you doing these exercises and decide to make fun, maybe you could challenge them to knock out a few SHELC sets. I have to think the laughter would stop there.
I have pretty good numbers in both the squat and deadlift...but the Bulgarian Split Squats kicked my ass...and various other bits....with what I would consider very light weights.
This shows that I had some glaring inbalances going on! THe beauty of these programs is that they address these things.
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Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. -- Sidney J. Harris
PGJ, I echo what Eric said: Thanks for serving our country. Our servicemen are very much in my thoughts.
Since my father was a Marine drill sergeant, I appreciate what you say about the importance of appearances.
I don't know if this helps, but I can assure you that the biggest mofos in the NFL and other sports do the exercises in this book. I worked on Core Performance with Mark Verstegen, and when I visited his facility in Tempe, Arizona, I saw NFL linemen doing stuff that's even odder-looking than what we have in NROL.
Another point is that these exercises may look less than manly, but they are anything but girly. They're really hard to do. The supine hip extension/leg curl (SHELC) is a challenging exercise to get right. It's not about hip thrusts, it's about building strength and stability in your body's strongest muscles.
If your troops see you doing these exercises and decide to make fun, maybe you could challenge them to knock out a few SHELC sets. I have to think the laughter would stop there.
Lou, thanks for the input. A funny story, my wife convinced me to do the Cindy Crawford workout video one time and I couldn't walk for about 3 days. The guys at work thought that was histerical. So, when I could walk again I took them out back and ran them through some of the squatting drills from the video. They died. However, you will NEVER see a Marine Drill Instructor doing anything on a swiss ball
I hope nobody is offended by the "girlie" comment, but anyone who's been going to the gym for a while knows there are some exercises you just don't see guys doing (i.e. lying on your back and pushing your basket into the air). I will give the program a try. Thanks, Lou.
Overall, I've been happy with the programs in the book. They contain lots of the big lifts (bench/squat/DL) and have a nice mix of supplemental exercises, some of which use the swiss ball. The swiss ball is just another tool, that when used properly can provide benefits.
BTW, Bulgarian split squats (or any lunge for that matter) are pretty brutal when loaded right.
Maybe I'm at one of these new age gyms, but you're more likely to see someone doing swiss ball work than DLs any day of the week. Does that suddenly make DLs 'girlie'? :p
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"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." -- T.S. Eliot
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."-- Aristotle
I workout at a fairly hardcore gym. If I go after work there are usually 5-10 guys that pull in the 600s, 5 or 6 that can bench in the 400s, there are a few that put up over 500, plenty of 500 pound squatters, a girl who is on the US Olympic weightlifting team cleaning and snatching ungodly amounts(Last weekend at the Pan-Am games she tied her American record)(unfortunately she is moving). I don't follow NROL, but I encorporate many of the "silly" exercises with no detrement. Maybe I have earned enough respect over the years that it is ok for me to do them? But if you are squatting and deadlifting as well, it isn't like you are doing a "girlie" workout. People understand my sport and my goals and respect my work ethic. I do some crazy Crossfit shit and people are inspired thinking(wishing they had the drive) that they should do the same. I do single leg, supine hip extensions every workout for glute activation, not on a ball though?
Some people won't get it, most likely they are a moron. Like the guy that asks "what muscle does that work?" when you are doing a snatch. Or the guys that laugh and think that "snatch" is a dirty word. If doing an exercise or two at the gym is going to cause you to loose some respect, you havn't earned any in the first place. Do the girlie little pussy exercises, then knock out some big ass deep intense squats - then who is going to give a fuck if you did a hip bridge before hand? How can you be too manly to do an exercise that has obvious benifits?
The gym is not the superbowl. When you guys are beating your chest trying to prove who is the biggest man, don't suggest up hip bridges as your choice challenge. But your workout is part of your daily grind. It would be more like having a salad at lunch a few times a week. The superbowl is the big shabang, when you guys decide to have a contest or go to a scantioned meet. Squat that day - squat bigger than them, and prove that your daily grind is worth the results.
You aren't afraid to be seen eating a vegetable once and a while too, are you? There are other ways to earn respect, even amongst big tough men.
"How can you be too manly to do an exercise that has obvious benifits?"
It's like bringing a salad to a Superbowl party.
I love a good salad. Especially when you add cheese and chopped boiled eggs, oh and some nuts too...
I don't know if you're joking or not, but attitudes about things have to be manly is what ends up getting people hurt. You see people doing too much weight on whatever exercise it is b/c they are too manly to drop the weight and learn to do them the right way. These same people won't do the preventative exercises to keep from getting hurt b/c, again they are too manly.
It's funny, b/c if you go to any pro-sports complex and watch the pros train you'll see these huge men doing the 'girlie' exercises b/c looking manly is second to performance.
Speaking of looks and the gym, I've never understood the whole look good the in the gym thing anyways. I wear the oldest clothes I have since I pretty much sweat through and tear up and piece of clothing I wear to the gym.
__________________
"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." -- T.S. Eliot
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."-- Aristotle
Guys, all I'm saying is that there are some exercises in this book that I don't see myself doing. Sorry, they might be great movements, but you got to draw a line somewhere. Call me shallow or whatever, but when you're a Marine officer who works out at a base gym with other Marines, everyday is the Superbowl and you better bring the pizza and beer. Fancy butt-squeezing, salad eating movements will bring nothing but harrassment, no matter ow big you are or how hard the exercise is. But I promise I will give them a try (there is an "aerobics room" upstairs that nobody uses).
My original question was about substituting other exercises, or do most people go strictly by the book? It can't be "do these specific exercises or else it won't work". Perhaps "do these TYPES of exercises". And what if I'm done with the prescribed fat-loss phase and I'm not where I want to be? Do another fat-loss phase?
Guys, all I'm saying is that there are some exercises in this book that I don't see myself doing. Sorry, they might be great movements, but you got to draw a line somewhere. Call me shallow or whatever, but when you're a Marine officer who works out at a base gym with other Marines, everyday is the Superbowl and you better bring the pizza and beer. Fancy butt-squeezing, salad eating movements will bring nothing but harrassment, no matter ow big you are or how hard the exercise is. But I promise I will give them a try (there is an "aerobics room" upstairs that nobody uses).
My original question was about substituting other exercises, or do most people go strictly by the book? It can't be "do these specific exercises or else it won't work". Perhaps "do these TYPES of exercises". And what if I'm done with the prescribed fat-loss phase and I'm not where I want to be? Do another fat-loss phase?
My suggestion, and I'm SERIOUS, is that you buy yourself a Swiss Ball and wrap it up in some tent canvas or some camo fabric and let the man who thinks it's "Girly" try it.
Surely an excercise a military-colored apparatus is MUCH manlier than one using something pink and poofy.
I went from doing 100-ish crunches flat to doing 15 on the ball. Took me six weeks to get where I could add weight.
Fancy butt-squeezing, salad eating movements will bring nothing but harrassment, no matter ow big you are or how hard the exercise is.
I'm surprised that you give a damn what other people think, given that you're a Marine. Isn't being a Marine supposed to make you tough? :P
Seriously, if a fellow Marine is giving you shit, tell him to give what you are doing a try and see if he's still giving you shit.
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The reason you don't have big arms is because you're weaker than a baby's fart, not because you don't do enough arm curls. -- Tony Gentilcore, via thefitcast.com
[Your] biceps [comprise] just 3 percent of the amount of muscle mass in your entire body. Remember that number: It's a good way to keep a perspective on how much you train your biceps compared with your other muscle groups. -- from menshealth.com
"Every day is the superbowl" - well the super bowl sounds real fucking special. So are you going to live on nothing but bear and pizza? What about PT tests and organized competitions, are they any more important than the superbowl?
So what is the question? If you are to tough(read scared and insecure) to do the exercises, don't do them. Vanity is a difficult vice. Make reasonable subs, and yes the program will provide the same results. Try some natural Glute-Ham Raises instead of hip bridges. I would stick with the Bulgarian split squats, they are an awesome exercise, but if they too shrivel your balls, can you at least do heavy barbell lunges or step ups? What other exercises are below the line of your masculinity, we can help provide some tough looking alternatives.
"Every day is the superbowl" - well the super bowl sounds real fucking special. So are you going to live on nothing but bear and pizza? What about PT tests and organized competitions, are they any more important than the superbowl?
So what is the question? If you are to tough(read scared and insecure) to do the exercises, don't do them. Vanity is a difficult vice. Make reasonable subs, and yes the program will provide the same results. Try some natural Glute-Ham Raises instead of hip bridges. I would stick with the Bulgarian split squats, they are an awesome exercise, but if they too shrivel your balls, can you at least do heavy barbell lunges or step ups? What other exercises are below the line of your masculinity, we can help provide some tough looking alternatives.
Have you seen the book renegade training?
Gees, why the personal attack? It was a simple question that you answered in between your insults. Am I entitled to my opinion?
Damn, I thought we were amongst men, I know that you can handle a little ball busting. Think about it, you are calling the exercises that I do "girlie" and fit only for the aerobics room - but I'm not going to cry about it. Is it not ok to respond in jest that you are just a bit oversensitive about how others perceive you? I didn't really want to hurt your feelings, just trying to show the other side of the coin. I'll ease up a bit.
My original question was about substituting other exercises, or do most people go strictly by the book? It can't be "do these specific exercises or else it won't work". Perhaps "do these TYPES of exercises".
Yes, you can make substitutions. Just try to replicate the movement pattern. You don't have to do anything sitting or lying or rolling. Just be careful you don't overload your lower-back muscles.
Quote:
And what if I'm done with the prescribed fat-loss phase and I'm not where I want to be? Do another fat-loss phase?
Depends. You can get significant fat loss from the Hypertrophy programs, which are designed to be metabolically disruptive. If you modify your diet, they can help you burn off a layer or two. So if you've already done the Break-In and the first two Fat Loss programs, I'd shift to Hypertrophy.
PGJ, no one is making fun of you. It's just that worrying about what you look like in the gym can at best make your workouts less efficient and at worse get you hurt.
I am curious though, what will you and your buddies do if you ever have to give CPR to a fellow marine?
__________________
"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." -- T.S. Eliot
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."-- Aristotle
Damn, I thought we were amongst men, I know that you can handle a little ball busting. Think about it, you are calling the exercises that I do "girlie" and fit only for the aerobics room - but I'm not going to cry about it. Is it not ok to respond in jest that you are just a bit oversensitive about how others perceive you? I didn't really want to hurt your feelings, just trying to show the other side of the coin. I'll ease up a bit.
You have some kind of sense of humor Using the F-word in your first sentence indicated that you were not "responding in jest". I didn't come here to cause controversy. I bought the book and read it and had some questions. I don't particularly care for some of the exercises. No harm, no foul. Just my personal opinion. If I offended you, I apoligize. I have elephant skin, meaning it's virtually impossible to offend me. Perhaps using the word "girlie" was not wise. I did some swiss ball work last night and it wasn't easy. I never said it was sissy or easy, just not something I see myself doing. Lou even recognizes this guy-thing phenomenon in the book.
PGJ, no one is making fun of you. It's just that worrying about what you look like in the gym can at best make your workouts less efficient and at worse get you hurt.
I am curious though, what will you and your buddies do if you ever have to give CPR to a fellow marine?
I don't think anyone is making fun of me, I'm afraid you guys think I'm making fun of you. I personally don't see myself breaking out a big rubber ball and doing the plank movements on it (I will do crunches on it). It's not like if I DON'T do it my body is going to fall apart or I'll be in some horrible imbalance and my life ruined. There are just a few exercises that I don't care for and don't want to do. Does EVERYONE here do heavy dead lifts or bar dips? I doubt it. It's not a big deal. I have never seen a woman do DL's or bar dips and I have never seen a man do swiss ball hip-thrust exercises. I'm definately not going to hurt myself because I don't do swiss ball work.
And the CPR question...there's a BIG difference between saving someone's life and exercising.
I count 35 previous sentences in our exchange, and the superbowl parties I go to usually have lots of beer, pizza, and F-words; not tea and yes ma'ams. I agree that you didn't call them sissy, just that they aren't "very manly." I thought that using the F-word was manly and you would appreshate it, I know that Gobbla(our most active board member that is a service man) would have. Either way, I am glad that your skin is thick enough that I didn't offend you, but am still sorry that you thought I was trying to.
It is very difficult to get a feel for a person you are communicating with in a few short written paragraphs. I obviously did poorly here.
Not completely sold on the program
Using the F-word in your first sentence indicated that you were not "responding in jest". I didn't come here to cause controversy. I bought the book and read it and had some questions. I don't particularly care for some of the exercises. No harm, no foul. Just my personal opinion. If I offended you, I apoligize. I have elephant skin, meaning it's virtually impossible to offend me. Perhaps using the word "girlie" was not wise. I did some swiss ball work last night and it wasn't easy. I never said it was sissy or easy, just not something I see myself doing. Lou even recognizes this guy-thing phenomenon in the book.
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