PJG I am not sure why you bought the book but I got it to find a system that would get the most out of the time I was spending in the gym. I went through the Break in phase and started the Fat Loss Phase 2. Unfortunately I didn't like to have my workouts as structured as they are in the book. I now use it as a guideline and I have found that many of the excercises (girly ones included) are much more difficult than they look and definetly hit areas that I was not hitting before. I am happy with my results considering the short time I have been using the ideas from the book. My point is that the canned routines just aren't for everybody but the theorys they have developed and the research from the book still made it a great resource for me. Hopefully it will work out the same for you. Good Luck and God Bless.
. . . but anyone who's been going to the gym for a while knows there are some exercises you just don't see guys doing (i.e. lying on your back and pushing your basket into the air).
LMAO!
PGJ: I perfectly undestand your feelings and impressions on the matter. You situation is akin to my martial arts situation, but your's magnifies the dynamics many-fold.
OTOH, I've been very amazed and humbled by some of the bodyweight stuff Alwyn and others use to challenge -- even bring to their kness -- many big, strong, buff and/or otherwise fit guys.
If you can be extra courageous enough to use that baby in a public gym, you just might start something that's good for the guys, and could even start some fun competitions (like a couple of guys standing/balancing on a couple of balls and playing a game of medicine ball passes! LOL)
Realistically, you don't HAVE to use the ball exercises; you'd be just fine. But perhaps look at it as a way of ensuring that you are in the best condition you can be to get the job done. If you decide not to do those exercises, no problem. Ihe ball is just one additional tool, but in my experience, it does have great value on a few exerercises I've done with it: SHELC and pikes come to mind.
Of course, you could ust keep the stability ball in your closet and, should anyone see it, just tell them you use it as a "prop" when you're with the ladies.
Oh, yeah, one other thing: you CAN'T disrespect Bulgarian Split Squats! They really do have great value, and they are very challenging to do properly. They are a real weightlifter exercise! Really!
PGJ: I perfectly undestand your feelings and impressions on the matter. You situation is akin to my martial arts situation, but your's magnifies the dynamics many-fold.
OTOH, I've been very amazed and humbled by some of the bodyweight stuff Alwyn and others use to challenge -- even bring to their kness -- many big, strong, buff and/or otherwise fit guys.
If you can be extra courageous enough to use that baby in a public gym, you just might start something that's good for the guys, and could even start some fun competitions (like a couple of guys standing/balancing on a couple of balls and playing a game of medicine ball passes! LOL)
Realistically, you don't HAVE to use the ball exercises; you'd be just fine. But perhaps look at it as a way of ensuring that you are in the best condition you can be to get the job done. If you decide not to do those exercises, no problem. Ihe ball is just one additional tool, but in my experience, it does have great value on a few exerercises I've done with it: SHELC and pikes come to mind.
Of course, you could ust keep the stability ball in your closet and, should anyone see it, just tell them you use it as a "prop" when you're with the ladies.
Oh, yeah, one other thing: you CAN'T disrespect Bulgarian Split Squats! They really do have great value, and they are very challenging to do properly. They are a real weightlifter exercise! Really!
Thanks. I'm not trying to be a big, hairy, man-show meat-head here. You understand what I'm saying. I relayed the story earlier about the Cindy Crawford video. It kicked my ass hard, but i'm not going to do it as my normal workout. I don't know any men that would do the Crawford video. And I'm always looking for creative ways to workout with bodyweight exercises. I hope I haven't ruffled too many feathers here.
PGJ,
I understand what you're saying, but the 'i need to look manly' is the same excuse guys use to bounce weight off their chest while benching (and tiring out their spotter who has to nearly curl every rep done) when they should really be dropping the weight so they could it properly. My mistake if I assumed that's where you were coming from.
And oh yea, women doing SLDLs (or any DLs for that matter) are great rewards for having to deal with a crowded gym
__________________
"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." -- T.S. Eliot
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."-- Aristotle
PGJ,
I understand what you're saying, but the 'i need to look manly' is the same excuse guys use to bounce weight off their chest while benching (and tiring out their spotter who has to nearly curl every rep done) when they should really be dropping the weight so they could it properly. My mistake if I assumed that's where you were coming from.
And oh yea, women doing SLDLs (or any DLs for that matter) are great rewards for having to deal with a crowded gym
I hear ya'. I'm definately not the guy bouncing weight off my chest and yelling at the top of my lungs and walking around with my elbows way out to the side. I don't show off.
SLDL depend on the person doing them. Some people you just wish they would stop
PGJ, doing what you do you probably have had hand to hand combat training yeah?
I know that Brazilian Jiujitsu is being taught in most branches of the armed forces now. I also know that many guys react negatively to the guard position (one guy lying between another's legs), but once they feel how effective BJJ is they disassociate the guard with "gayness" and begin to associate it with a position from which you can save your life in a real situation.
The point is once you do the exercises in question and feel the effectiveness hopefully you'll associate them with getting stronger. It's the results that matter.
Guys may look at you funny at first but not when it helps you DL twice your bodyweight.
PS I love watching my wife do more pullups that 90% of the guys in the gym
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Thinking outside the box here a little...but why not split the workout into two chunks. Do the manlyman stuff at the gym, go the girlyman stuff at home. Everyone's a winner.
If you get bored of NROL making you feel like a dork, try the book of muscle for some new levels of queer that you never thought possible!
PGJ, doing what you do you probably have had hand to hand combat training yeah?
I know that Brazilian Jiujitsu is being taught in most branches of the armed forces now. I also know that many guys react negatively to the guard position (one guy lying between another's legs), but once they feel how effective BJJ is they disassociate the guard with "gayness" and begin to associate it with a position from which you can save your life in a real situation.
The point is once you do the exercises in question and feel the effectiveness hopefully you'll associate them with getting stronger. It's the results that matter.
Guys may look at you funny at first but not when it helps you DL twice your bodyweight.
PS I love watching my wife do more pullups that 90% of the guys in the gym
A woman who can do pullups automatically gets about 100 extra hot points.
The most amazing thing about the book is this. There is not one exercise, not one program that is not supported by good, solid explanation and the latest in exercise science. It seems to be your ego and not your workout that you are worried about. What will others think? You're a Marine and that should be a no brainer for you. And, like others, I thank you for your service to this country. Just remember this:
A house built on brute strength with little attention to the fine details will soon fall into ruin.
Another Mahlerism for ya. LOL
__________________ In Fitness & Friendship, MAHLER
______________________________ __________________________ There is no light at the end of the tunnel. You carry the light with you.
The most amazing thing about the book is this. There is not one exercise, not one program that is not supported by good, solid explanation and the latest in exercise science. It seems to be your ego and not your workout that you are worried about. What will others think? You're a Marine and that should be a no brainer for you. And, like others, I thank you for your service to this country. Just remember this:
A house built on brute strength with little attention to the fine details will soon fall into ruin.
Another Mahlerism for ya. LOL
I appreciate the input and I thank you for your support, but it's not like I'm some guy who never works out, is out of shape, or someone who just does bench press and bicep curls all day. I do a prety good job staying in shape, especially for a 36 year old. I still kick the crap out of the young Marines. What I don't understand is why it's so hard for some people to understand that there are just some things a guy doesn't want to be seen doing or feels uncomfortable doing. I've done some strange exercises in the Marines. One of my favorites was holding a pillow straight out in front of you (bootcamp drill). Easy at first, but after about 2 minutes that pillow feels like bricks. That will smoke your shoulders. Fireteam pushups are pretty interesting. The crunch-squat is an ass-kicker (lay down in a crunch position with knees bent and someone sitting on your feet and holding on to your calves. Crunch up and stand, squat back down and return to original position).
To be honest, I think your opinion would change if you'd try the exercises you mentioned, the Bulgarian Split Squat and the T-Pushup. Both are far more strenuous than you seem at this moment to believe. If you have tried them, then I suspect you are mainly probably simply trying to provoke a response and stir things up, because you would definitely see their value. Perhaps you are a rival of Lou and Alwyn's writing here under a pseudonym, I hardly know.
If in fact you are not simply making this up, please accept my apology for the suggestion, but at this point I do not know what to make of your posts in this thread. Sorry Bro.
PGJ at some point you just have to agree to disagree. Like Lou said feel free to swap out excercises that you don't want to do with excercise with similar movements.
I think the PGJ is sincere in his posts. I was tough on him to start, and unfortunately it did not come across real well. I can understand his concerns and just tried to be a bit abusive on the opposite end of the spectrum from what he expected to see in the gym. I am not offended by his opinions, and I hope there is no hard feelings. But still, I think he is honest and has good intentions. I think he has agreed to disagree, and done not much more than repeat his position after we have re-tried to convince him otherwise.
Again, this time not surrounded by insults, let us know if there are any specific exercises that you need some ideas to sub for. That is where he will see some benifit from this thread. Hopefully others will to, but that they will also see the strong suggestion to give all the exercises a shot. Most posts quickly grow outside the scope of the original poster because in a public forum they will be read by many.
OK guys, I tried the exercises I was concerned about today. I did a tri set of Swiss ball crunches (15 reps), followed by the supine hip extension (12 reps), then the SHELC (12 reps). Did 3 sets of this with minimal rest in between. Then I did the lateral roll (12 reps), Upper body russian twist (12 reps), and then the lower body Russian twist. Rest, then did 2 sets each of Woodchop and reverse wood chop and a set of t push-ups (with 5 lbs db's). Then 20 minutes of HIIT cardio. My thoughts:
Swiss ball crunch - love it, will add weight next time.
Supine hip ext - OK, felt a lot in the lower back.
SHELC - What's the big deal? I prefer leg curls.
Lat roll - ??? Maybe I was doing it wrong, didn't like it.
UBRT - Again, what's the big deal? I'll add weight next time.
LBRT - liked it.
Woodchop - AWESOME! That felt great.
T-pushups - I practically do pushups for a living, this did nothing for me.
Tomorrow I will try the various lunges. My wife is an aerobics instructor and has tried to teach me how to do them. I always feel it more in my back quad. I prefer squats, but I will try to learn lunges.
I want you all to know I am being sincere. I'm not a competitor in disguise or anything. I'm just a guy who loves fitness and is interested in learning something new.
Fair enough. Again, I was not assuming the worst, simply wasn't totally sure where you were coming from, alhtough now in reading back through I should have given you more credit. I am not one who believes a high post count confers credibility, but not having seen you post here until very recently and this thread being your initial foray, I simply didn't have the context to know you better.
I'll be interested to hear your read on Bulgarian split squats. Keep us posted, and thanks for your sincere communications.
congrats on taking the plunge and at the very least giving them a try.
you could try the single leg hip ext if the dual is too easy...make sure you keep your torso\pelvis rigid
SHELC- the benifit to these is just as much a core stability excersise as it is a hamstring one
The lunges as Buk mentioned are tremendous for developing each leg independantly of the other so you can't "cheat" doing a bilateral movement.
Something to keep in mind is that these programs are designed to do what they do >period<. Their's a certain amount of carry over bu by in large if it's a fat loss program it's intended to make you lose fat at the expense of all else. The strength programs are their to get you stronger, the hypertrophy to get you bigger. So if you feel like something isn't getting you stronger in the fat loss routine, it probibly isn't. HOWEVER, the unilateral work and core work will better prepair you for when you do go back to a strength\hypertrophy program so you can take full advantage of it with your new strength balance and stability.
It's cool you're giving them a shot PGJ. Hopefully you'll find some that work for you (and leave out the ones that don't) through the experience.
I can't say I've done every workout in NROL, but I don't think they use lunges in place of real squats too often. Usually they are an accessory exercise. Doing something like heavy 6x3 squats followed by 2x10 lunges and now you're talking. Even doing heavy dynamic lunges is fun sometimes b/c it forces you to work on the balance muscles that get a free ride when doing the straight squat. Let us know how they work out for you!
__________________
"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." -- T.S. Eliot
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."-- Aristotle
congrats on taking the plunge and at the very least giving them a try.
you could try the single leg hip ext if the dual is too easy...make sure you keep your torso\pelvis rigid
SHELC- the benifit to these is just as much a core stability excersise as it is a hamstring one
The lunges as Buk mentioned are tremendous for developing each leg independantly of the other so you can't "cheat" doing a bilateral movement.
Something to keep in mind is that these programs are designed to do what they do >period<. Their's a certain amount of carry over bu by in large if it's a fat loss program it's intended to make you lose fat at the expense of all else. The strength programs are their to get you stronger, the hypertrophy to get you bigger. So if you feel like something isn't getting you stronger in the fat loss routine, it probibly isn't. HOWEVER, the unilateral work and core work will better prepair you for when you do go back to a strength\hypertrophy program so you can take full advantage of it with your new strength balance and stability.
I like the idea of doing some core work. every once in a while I'll get up off the bench or something and it feels like I've pulled some weird muscle in my back or intercostals. I can't pinpoint it, but it's aggravating. The muscle work of the ball exercises wasn't particularly taxing, but balancing was a challenge. I guess that's all those little bastard core muscles going "what the hell's going on? What's he doing? This isn't squats!"
I appreciate the input and I thank you for your support, but it's not like I'm some guy who never works out, is out of shape, or someone who just does bench press and bicep curls all day. I do a prety good job staying in shape, especially for a 36 year old. I still kick the crap out of the young Marines. What I don't understand is why it's so hard for some people to understand that there are just some things a guy doesn't want to be seen doing or feels uncomfortable doing. I've done some strange exercises in the Marines. One of my favorites was holding a pillow straight out in front of you (bootcamp drill). Easy at first, but after about 2 minutes that pillow feels like bricks. That will smoke your shoulders. Fireteam pushups are pretty interesting. The crunch-squat is an ass-kicker (lay down in a crunch position with knees bent and someone sitting on your feet and holding on to your calves. Crunch up and stand, squat back down and return to original position).
It's not about ego.
Thanks for that. I understand completely and I am impressed that you went ahead and tried the exercises just the same. Nice going and a good assessment. Some exercises do little to make me stronger, but the increase in my flexibility is well worth the effort to keep them in my routine. I guess I am in no position to judge your motives, since I work out in my basement and don't have to encounter the "stare factor."
__________________ In Fitness & Friendship, MAHLER
______________________________ __________________________ There is no light at the end of the tunnel. You carry the light with you.
2point db row w/ elbows out - Loved it. I thought the hand behind the back this was goofy until I tried it. Man, that really worked the middle of the back. I normally do BB rows with 145lbs for 10 reps, but 40lb db wore me out. I can see how the hand behind the back thing really forces the torso stabilizers to work.
Bulgarian split squat superset with step-ups - I had to go lie down after 3 supersets of this with just bodyweight. My balance was all screwed up at first but by the 3rd set it was much better. What an ass-burner. Really liked it. Legs still pumped.
2point db row w/ elbows out - Loved it. I thought the hand behind the back this was goofy until I tried it. Man, that really worked the middle of the back. I normally do BB rows with 145lbs for 10 reps, but 40lb db wore me out. I can see how the hand behind the back thing really forces the torso stabilizers to work.
Bulgarian split squat superset with step-ups - I had to go lie down after 3 supersets of this with just bodyweight. My balance was all screwed up at first but by the 3rd set it was much better. What an ass-burner. Really liked it. Legs still pumped.
That's great! I think we have a convert :p
__________________
"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." -- T.S. Eliot
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."-- Aristotle
Bulgarian split squat superset with step-ups - I had to go lie down after 3 supersets of this with just bodyweight. My balance was all screwed up at first but by the 3rd set it was much better. What an ass-burner. Really liked it. Legs still pumped.
Bulgarians . . . I used to think my right side was weak, but a simple experiment proved me wrong.
Doing the right side first, my left leg had trouble with the set. My core stabilizers need a LOT more work.
I knew the Bulgarian Split Squats would get you!! Glad you enjoyed them.
My butt is really sore this morning. What was weird about the exercise is that it was much easier to do with my weak leg (left) than my strong leg (right). With my left it was up, down, up, down...With my right my balance was horrible. I had to hold on to a bench to keep from falling. I also noticed a tightness in my right leg when it was behind me. Discovering imbalances, I guess. I still like my 20-rep squats, but I'll plug these in once a week.
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