This post bears directly on and partially answers Q’s “some days yes...some days no” query., specifically the question of mind/body in someone who works out alone and the “Pops” remark. But it’s also got some tangential aspects and I don’t want to hijack the other thread. So I’m making this a separate topic with Q’s . I do have a chance here to comment on an issue of some concern—namely the differences in the kind of experience that come from working out on your own versus working out with someone else, specifically with a personal trainer.
Before getting into this topic, two general observations are in order.
The first observation concerns our host on this board. Jean-Paul (1) owns and operates a fitness center based largely on his staff of trainers and their work with his clients. He therefore has something of a vested interest in promoting the idea that there’s a lot of value in using a trainer in the quest for greater fitness.But Jean-Paul (2) actively participates in both his own fitness forum and that of MH. If he has ever said a single word in favor of personal trainers, I’ve missed it. This absence of self-promotion is absolutely extraordinary—really magnanimous and generous. (My theory is that our friend realizes that most of the denizens of these forums are do-it-yourselfers, and many are teenagers who can’t afford personal trainers.)
The second observation concerns my own experience. Three years ago, when I started working out, the first time in my life (not as a 97-pound, 21-year-old “weakling,” but as a 65-year-old, 200+ pound weakling), I did it alone. Someone at my gym set me up with a program of cardio and circuit training. I was then on my own. I made modifications in my routine as I continued—gradually reduced cardio, increased reps, sets, and amount lifted.
I kept at it in this way for two years and made a lot of progress in every way. But then I reached a fork in the road. I realized that if I kept up what I was doing I would never go any farther. I wanted to add free weights to what I was doing and cut back on the machines, but was worried about injury from poor form or technique. I wasn’t challenging myself as needed, and there was no feedback about whether I was doing things right or not.
So, a year ago next month, I signed on with a personal trainer who at that time worked in the gym I went to. I’d seen enough of his work with other clients that I had confidence that he knew what he was doing, and that I could therefore trust him absolutely.
But before going into what it was like to work out under a trainer’s guidance, there’s one more point. I wasn’t the oldest guy using that gym, but the great majority of the other members were younger than me, in many cases by a three or more decades. I was sometimes distracted by wondering what they thought about me and about what I was doing. I was also distracted by noticing that I was leg pressing 175 pounds, while the next guy to use the machine (about 17 years old) was up to 300 pounds. Here are a couple of instances of poor transactions between mind and body.
I had intended to work with my trainer—let’s call him Steve— for maybe a month or two, but it’s been three sessions a week ever since, and I’ll probably continue with him another year—or until I reach a point where further progress is possible, trainer or no trainer.
I’ve made much more progress in this last 11 months than I ever dreamed of, in both strength and appearance. I attribute this progress to two things: first, Steve does in fact know his stuff; and, second, I have trusted him. (If he asks me to do something new, I may ask why, but always accept his explanation.)
I don’t have to ask if I’m doing something right—or wrong. If my grip is wrong, if I am cheating on range of motion, if my stance or posture is sloppy, Steve tells me. “Keep your elbows in.” “Don’t lock your knees.” “Keep your arms out straight.” “Hey, look, right at the end of this set, you’re popping your head forward. Keep it back, and meanwhile there’s a lot of tension in your neck and your clenched fists.” He encourages me. “You’ve got another set in you this morning.” “Do you realize you’re up ten more pounds on this one over where you were just two weeks ago?”
Steve keeps track of what I’m doing, so I don’t have to keep track. I just have to perform what he asks. In a sense, it’s HIS mind and MY body. He constantly varies my routine. (Since it’s never exactly the same thing twice, it really isn’t a routine.)
What’s going on here between Steve and me is not entirely unfamiliar. In my youth I took a lot of music lessons, particularly voice. My teacher told me things I was doing that I was entirely unconscious of. I also had some conducting classes involving a coach. I’ve also had similar experiences in intensive training in another language. What happens is that you divest yourself of your own mind, but temporarily, and see yourself from the vantage point of someone else’s mind. And obviously we could take this topic in another direction altogether, that of various kinds of therapy.
Below, most of the post that inspired these reflections.
“Since this section is about the mind-body connection, I was wondering how much your state of mind influences your performance in the gym? Today, when I working out, a lift that I can normally do with a little struggling was out of my range. I always lift alone so I didn't have a spotter and didn't seek any help with it so I eventually had to drop my weight back to finish the set.
“I tried once more and tried to psych myself up to finish it but then this kid came up and asked, "how many more sets you got, Pop?" Just kidding, he didn't add the "Pop" part but he did just stand there and stare at me as I was struggling with this weight I had failed on once so I never did get back to where I normally top out at. With him standing there and having missed it once, I was probably dead in the water anyway. “
__________________
"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument." William Gibbs McAdoo. US Vice-President under Woodrow Wilson.
Gardener,
Your trainer, "Steve," is exactly the kind of trainer that I try to recruit. It is hard to find trainers or anyone in the fitness industry who are not self-absorbed "out of work actors" (as erowan astutely referred to them)... I try to find people who base their training on a "holistic" approach (I hesitate to use this word for its negative connotations, but in this case I am merely indicating that the trainer is concentrating on more than just aesthetics). Seems as though you have found just that with Steve, and you should be very greatful to have found a gem in a field of cow patties! Your results were nothing short of AMAZING, and I can't wait till we can show everyone how much progress you made (soon!).
Originally posted by gardener: This post bears directly on and partially answers Q’s “some days yes...some days no” query., specifically the question of mind/body in someone who works out alone and the “Pops” remark. But it’s also got some tangential aspects and I don’t want to hijack the other thread.
Personally, I wouldn't have felt that you were hijacking the other thread as your comments are very much in line with mine... and now I'll have two threads to follow instead of one! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
First of all, I just wanted to say that the "Pops" comment was made entirely in jest. The young man was not in any way disrespectful.
However, I have to admit that I do pretty much go into my own world in the gym with my headphones on, listening to the music that I choose and loaded on my MP3 player... and I very much prefer it that way.
I can be a very open, out-going person and, yes, I do talk to friends and acquaintances in the gym but I also cherish that time to be alone with me! I've also always been very inward-focused and reflective when given the opportunity and that's the way I am in the gym. I focus very much on what I'm doing - on the experience - and can become almost oblivious to what's going on around me. I think that's why this young man standing next to me waiting and watching was distracting.
I can certainly understand your point about the benefits of a qualified trainer and, if I weren't in a student gym where I would only get student trainers, I might try it again. For now, I'll probably continue to enjoy my midday private encounter between just me and the iron.
Originally posted by gardener: This absence of self-promotion is absolutely extraordinary—really magnanimous and generous.
JP really is generous and magnanimous. I can vouch for that in a personal basis. He helped me and my family when he has never met us and wouldn't know me from Adam on the street.
Gardener, it is interesting that you bring up the age factor, since I was thinking about exactly that when I was driving home from the gym today. I think the weight room is generally the domain of the younger person - at least in the 2 gyms where I am a member - one of which even has an older clientele than most gyms. Many times, at age 37, I may be one of the two oldest guys in the weight room. Therefore, I think more accollades should be given to older men and women who habitually resistance train. I was actually thinking about you and Quercus and popeye and CIB while driving home (no kidding!) and thinking ' they should be given some sort of award for doing what they do.' You guys are truly my inspiration and my fitness heroes - I hope that I am able to continue as you gentlemen are when I am your chronological ages.
Therefore, I think more accollades should be given to older men and women who habitually resistance train. I was actually thinking about you and Quercus and popeye and CIB while driving home (no kidding!) and thinking ' they should be given some sort of award for doing what they do.' You guys are truly my inspiration and my fitness heroes - I hope that I am able to continue as you gentlemen are when I am your chronological ages.
Ah, gosh, I'm getting all choked up!
You see, my BODY may be 49 but my mind won't cooperate! I'm still the same person I was 20 years ago, in some regards.
As my kids tell me, "denial is not just a river in Egypt!"
Yeah, in relating my own good experience with a particular personal trainer, I don’t mean to imply that anyone would benefit from becoming a client of any personal trainer whatsoever.
I’ve seen some weird things. One such supposed trainer had two clients who worked with him during my usual time. He lolled on the floor and watched them pace around with neck weights and ankle weights. Closer to home, a friend who knew I had a high opinion of Steve, had one session with another “trainer.” She had just lost a lot of weight, hadn’t been working out at all, and he had her do 75 lunges. For four or five days if she wanted to drive she had to use her hands and arms to lift her legs into the car.
from q
"I do pretty much go into my own world in the gym with my headphones on, listening to the music that I choose and loaded on my MP3 player... and I very much prefer it that way. "
I went to one gym for two and a half years; when Steve moved to another one I followed him. The first gym had a radio blaring constantly, with programming alternating between what passes nowadays for popular music and an inane talk show on which a man and a woman rambled on about getting laid. The second gym was quiet. Blessed silence! (But I’d really love a gym where Bach and Mahled were in the air!)
from Kaiser
"the age factor"
I give the Internet credit for having created a place where similar interests bring together people that otherwise are of different generations. Generational differences do not vanish, but they are downplayed, partly because communication between us takes places largely in words on a screen, sans body language, voice timbre, and visual clues as to age. Some things can transcend differences of age. J-P and Kaiser are both younger than both of my sons. (And as a matter of fact, my sons and I have reached a point where we talk with each other as grown men to one another.)
But I don’t think greater age necessarily means greater wisdom, anymore than I think that higher levels of formal education imply greater intelligence. All I know is that at 68 I know what it’s like to be 17 or 23 or 40, but that at age 17 I had no idea what it would be like to be 68.
also from Kaiser
"You guys are truly my inspiration and my fitness heroes "-
And vice versa! I never dreamed of being anyone’s “inspiration” as regards fitness. In a sense, however, I have been. There are about six people, friends to various degrees, who have (1) stopped smoking and (2) started exercising because of my example. In the first case, my example included surgery for lung cancer as well as giving up cigarettes, cold turkey. In the second case, they could see some noticeable improvements in my strength and appearance. They probably said, well, if that chain-smoking, self-indulgent, lifetime slob could do it, then I can do it too, and everybody else to boot.
It also occurs to me that in these 17-year-olds who ask on the MH boards “how can I get bigger and impress chicks” there is an element of heroism. Their questions can be translated from Early Testosterone lingo as “help me get better than I am.”
And, in regard to J-P's mention of the pictures, when you get a chance, go ahead and add them here. They show that I'll never be 23 again, but I did make some changes in my mid- to late-60s.
__________________
"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument." William Gibbs McAdoo. US Vice-President under Woodrow Wilson.
Yeah, in relating my own good experience with a particular personal trainer, I don’t mean to imply that anyone would benefit from becoming a client of any personal trainer whatsoever.
I’ve seen some weird things. One such supposed trainer had two clients who worked with him during my usual time. He lolled on the floor and watched them pace around with neck weights and ankle weights. Closer to home, a friend who knew I had a high opinion of Steve, had one session with another “trainer.” She had just lost a lot of weight, hadn’t been working out at all, and he had her do 75 lunges. For four or five days if she wanted to drive she had to use her hands and arms to lift her legs into the car.
from q
"I do pretty much go into my own world in the gym with my headphones on, listening to the music that I choose and loaded on my MP3 player... and I very much prefer it that way. "
I went to one gym for two and a half years; when Steve moved to another one I followed him. The first gym had a radio blaring constantly, with programming alternating between what passes nowadays for popular music and an inane talk show on which a man and a woman rambled on about getting laid. The second gym was quiet. Blessed silence! (But I’d really love a gym where Bach and Mahled were in the air!)
from Kaiser
"the age factor"
I give the Internet credit for having created a place where similar interests bring together people that otherwise are of different generations. Generational differences do not vanish, but they are downplayed, partly because communication between us takes places largely in words on a screen, sans body language, voice timbre, and visual clues as to age. Some things can transcend differences of age. J-P and Kaiser are both younger than both of my sons. (And as a matter of fact, my sons and I have reached a point where we talk with each other as grown men to one another.)
But I don’t think greater age necessarily means greater wisdom, anymore than I think that higher levels of formal education imply greater intelligence. All I know is that at 68 I know what it’s like to be 17 or 23 or 40, but that at age 17 I had no idea what it would be like to be 68.
also from Kaiser
"You guys are truly my inspiration and my fitness heroes "-
And vice versa! I never dreamed of being anyone’s “inspiration” as regards fitness. In a sense, however, I have been. There are about six people, friends to various degrees, who have (1) stopped smoking and (2) started exercising because of my example. In the first case, my example included surgery for lung cancer as well as giving up cigarettes, cold turkey. In the second case, they could see some noticeable improvements in my strength and appearance. They probably said, well, if that chain-smoking, self-indulgent, lifetime slob could do it, then I can do it too, and everybody else to boot.
It also occurs to me that in these 17-year-olds who ask on the MH boards “how can I get bigger and impress chicks” there is an element of heroism. Their questions can be translated from Early Testosterone lingo as “help me get better than I am.”
And, in regard to J-P's mention of the pictures, when you get a chance, go ahead and add them here. They show that I'll never be 23 again, but I did make some changes in my mid- to late-60s.
__________________
"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument." William Gibbs McAdoo. US Vice-President under Woodrow Wilson.
Originally posted by gardener: I give the Internet credit for having created a place where similar interests bring together people that otherwise are of different generations. Generational differences do not vanish, but they are downplayed, partly because communication between us takes places largely in words on a screen, sans body language, voice timbre, and visual clues as to age. Some things can transcend differences of age.
I have found that exercise does indeed create friendships that would probably never be forged otherwise. One of my very good friends is a 56 year old Jewish woman who I met in some spin and bootcamp classes. The lady is one of my fitness heroes, hanging with people 20 and 30 years younger than her. She recently completed her first triathlon and placed in her age category. She works diligently to get better, and I am amazed at her results. Normally she and I would probably never have occasion to develop a friendship. Now we have each other on our cell phones speed dial and ride bikes together once a week, and talk a lot during those rides, exchanging ideas and life experiences. We often comment on how we would never have met each other without the love of exercise.
Quote:
Originally posted by gardener: But I don’t think greater age necessarily means greater wisdom, anymore than I think that higher levels of formal education imply greater intelligence. All I know is that at 68 I know what it’s like to be 17 or 23 or 40, but that at age 17 I had no idea what it would be like to be 68.
I guess that would be true, but experience certainly often leads to wisdom. My elderly neighbor in a wheelchair with no legs and a colostomy bag is a great source of historical information in her stories, and talking with her allows me to put the world and how it has changed in perspective.
Also, I was brought up to respect age and experience (maybe I was the last generation to have been taught this trait? ).
No you were likely not the last generation to learn respect for age and experience. I respect my elders too; BUT only when they are right.
I have a rule in life to treat people equally, regardless of age, sex, etc. I am like the Equal Opportunity Employer when it comes to Communication overall with others, but on the premise that the person convinces me that they are worth my time.
You can have an ignorant, stubborn and not-liked 80 year old, just as you can have an ignorant, stubborn and not-liked 12 year old kid. Same with intelligence; one who is 20 can be as intelligent as someone of age 70 for instance.
Experience though... Another story/topic.... Through our daily experiences we shape who we are, what we believe, how we think/react/view the world and people around us. So it MAY (I underline, MAY) and likely should follow that with age, more experiences occur, hence a better understanding of life, sharper intelligence, etc.... But then again, not always: A person who spends 40 years in front of the TV mostly versus a person who spends 25 years running around from 6 a.m. to midnight daily in an attempt to better his/her life and to enrich his/her understanding of being, of others, of the world, etc. Likely the 25 year old will be more respected in such case for the experiences he/she has lived.
But, who is to say........ You could argue a point either way just about always; at least if the point to be argued is non-scientific.
I have respect for those older than me who have proven to live life to the fullest and gain something positive and good from each day alive.
Regarding the gym and different ages/people there: My view is that we should all mind our own business at the gym, that is unless we WANT to chat/make friends, etc.
I left the gym scene as I hated the excesive attention that I received most of the time... I did not feel as if I could/should push the weights or the treadmill as far in front of others staring, that's all. At home I can sweat all I want and it's all fine.
Opinions... Opinions...
Anna
__________________
You live in too much of a logical world!
If you just stepped out of it and forgot the worldy limits, ANYTHING & EVERYTHING would be possible... - anna kubit
Yes, you are right about the correlation, or lack thereof, between age and experience. But, I believe it holds in general. Of course, there are always exceptions.
Quote:
Originally posted by Anna Kubit: I left the gym scene as I hated the excesive attention that I received most of the time... I did not feel as if I could/should push the weights or the treadmill as far in front of others staring, that's all. At home I can sweat all I want and it's all fine.
The curse of being an attractive female. But there are certainly other benefits that accrue as well! [img]smile.gif[/img] Like rapid responses to fitness questions!! J/K!
Amazing that this thread should surface almost a year later , like some odd sea creature emerging from the Phillipine Deep.
I'm still with "Steve," but it's really Mark. He keeps pushing me, and I keep making progress. It's been almost like a second adolescence; over time there are marked changes in my body. There's more ab flab than I would like but the rest of me is solid and fairly well defined. Changes in appearance are great--but the main thing is that as I enter the second half of age 69, I feel terrific and my practical strength is much, much higher than 4 years ago.
__________________
"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument." William Gibbs McAdoo. US Vice-President under Woodrow Wilson.
Originally posted by Kaiser: Like rapid responses to fitness questions!! J/K!
LOL!
Hmmm.... I am very happy about all the responses as well as all the motivation and energy of this forum! If it was not for you guys, I would be eating pizza or potatoes by now!
I look up to YOU! I feel like I am a part of this fitness team (online) now, and that feels GREAT!!!
Anna *smiles*
__________________
You live in too much of a logical world!
If you just stepped out of it and forgot the worldy limits, ANYTHING & EVERYTHING would be possible... - anna kubit
I think a big problem is a lot of gyms have their "own" certification programs and throw any ol joe shmo out there to train their members. This is really unfortunate, the ymca does this to an extent. I am expected to train members and I don't even have my certificate yet, they are in high demand of trainers and know I am studying to become one so take advantage of the fact I'm 20 and they can pay me minimum wage. As soon as I pass my nsca-cpt exam I am quitting this position and will be exclusively a trainer with clients instead of a weight room babysitter/janitor/guy to go to ask about exercises and nutrition.
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