Personally I think Penn is an amazing fighter and can take anyone down in his weight class. Fighting against GSP I don't think he will pull it off. Don't get me wrong, it will be a great fight, one to remember. GSP is just too good. Dana said whoever wins (GSP is going to win) will fight Thiago Alves. That's another fight to look forward to and if GSP wins he will work his way to fight Silva and probably lose. Unless of course he trains like crazy and some how gets himself up to Silva's caliber.
Kind of a side discussion for this topic, UFC portrays their fighters as being respectful and classy. Sure they have some fighters with these qualities, but it is fighting, when people fight they let their emotions get the best of them. A lot of fighters make rude and sometimes obscene gestures and on top of that there is a lot of trash talking going on now a days. It's almost getting to be a male soap opera like WWE.
Anyway, If you like to discuss MMA I visit a forum called mmachump.com It's a pretty decent website with a crowd of nice guys.
Note: I didn't see any rules against posting a link here so if I broke a rule let me know and I will happily remove the link.
__________________ Pain is the feeling of fear leaving your body.
I really like both fighters, but I think you're right, GSP will win. He's just a better all around athlete. Maybe if BJ would dedicate himself to training with the intensity that GSP does, it would be a different story. But as we all know, anything can happen in MMA! The whole card looks AWESOME, and I can't wait!
GSP beat him by wrestling in the first match when he couldn't wrestle all that well. Now he can.
He'll just wrestle him for the points win.
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Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. -- Sidney J. Harris
Remember this is a 5 round fight. BJ, better put down the burrito and walk away.
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Penn is out conditioned for sure on this one. Should be interesting to watch anyway. As far as the fighters having respect for each other...I'm pretty sure that threatening that you're gonna kill your opponent is disrespectful...
I think Penn will win. And I hope I'm wrong.
The rest of my main card thoughts: Machida, Bonnar, Kim, Guida.
Lastly, I'd like a couple of the main card fights to run a little short so that we get to see Fitch-Gono.
I don't care much who wins between GSP and BJ. I'm a big fan of both guys. It's odd I like GSP a little more but I wouldn't mind seeing BJ win because it seems so many people underestimate him since he doesn't look like a physical specimen. Plus then we'd see a rubber match. The only thing I don't want to see is GSP turn it into a wrestling clinic and hold out for a decision win. As long as that doesn't happen I'm just hoping for a good fight.
If BJ wins it'll be in the first 3 rounds. I actually wouldn't be surpised if he KO'd GSP. Even though he seems to be in better shape than he used to I just don't think he's become a cardio machine. Plus his strength & conditioning program isn't all that great from the looks of it.
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"Is there no standard anymore?" - Walk, Pantera
Penn has knock out power in his weight class but im not too sure about penn knocking out the welter weight champ. But I do agree with, if he does in.. it will be in the first 3 rounds, anything more will be gsp.
__________________ Pain is the feeling of fear leaving your body.
Maybe now people will stop parroting the bullshit about Machida not being exciting. He has the attitude and skills to beat anyone in the division - and I believe will be champ.
GSP... wow. He proved what superior training can do. Jonathon Chaimbourg and all his trainers did a hell of a job.
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
I dont know if Machida has the knock out power to knock out Evans though. But then again it's Machida and he's been doing nothing but surprising me every fight haha. They said he has been training to strike more and run less which we definitely saw with silva last night. He was actually on the offense most of the time.
__________________ Pain is the feeling of fear leaving your body.
That's the point - Machida never did run. He has trained to not get hit. He mentioned in some interview that he trains Karate as if his opponent is holding a knife, and you can't argue his strategy is not effective, and in my eyes beautiful to watch.
People may think MMA is brawling, but Machida is showing the effectiveness of martials arts. It's similar to how when Royce came in UFC I and didn't get hit and people didn't understand. Machida has taken it to a new level.
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
IMO...He's just being a little bitch. As if they weren't already sweaty? What would it have possibly done? He had his ass handed to him...he needs to shut it, and take it like a man.
You should keep in mind BJ was still being looked at by doctors and I really doubt he even knew they were filing a complaint since it they did it minutes after the loss. Sure you could call BJ a pussy for quitting after calling GSP a bitch for doing the same thing in a prior fight. But I don't think BJ himself had anything to do with his team going to the commission.
__________________ Pain is the feeling of fear leaving your body.
It's not going to help people's opinion of him either way. Whether he was part of it or not. He easily lost this one. I hate when they try to pull something out of nothing. Lose gracefully keep some of your dignity and respect...just take it, and then use it to make you stronger next time.
IMO...He's just being a little bitch. As if they weren't already sweaty? What would it have possibly done? He had his ass handed to him...he needs to shut it, and take it like a man.
I think BJ would've lost anyway but putting vaseline on a fighter anywhere but the face is a big no no. You might not think it'd make a difference but it does. Dana said they were putting it on in between rounds 1 & 2. We don't know if they put it on GSP before the fight even started or not but even after the first round a lot of fighters aren't really sweaty yet. Plus, trying JJ on someone that's sweaty is hard but not as hard as an oily substance mixed in with the sweat. Akiyama had several fighters complain about him being slippery in Japan and his fight against Sakuraba was even overturned because he put lotion on himself before the fight. I'm a fan of GSP so I obviously don't have a problem with him winning, and maybe BJ is just looking for something to bitch about, but this is a legitimate complaint.
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"Is there no standard anymore?" - Walk, Pantera
haha Yes. My favorite part of that article was "We dont need to cheat to win" hahaha. True.
It'd be a lot of pain and embarrassment to overturn the fight or call it a NC so I'd be really surprised if anything happens. Even the NSAC and Dana White would not want that. The only ones that would would be BJ's camp. And I don't think it made the difference in the fight anyway.
Still, their whole excuse was BS. You can look back at the history of my posts on MMA and see I'm a big GSP fan but to think that they were doing that because the team "witch doctor" said to and he just "happened" to have vaseline on his hands...that's about as believable as Sherk's claims about his positive drug test.
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"Is there no standard anymore?" - Walk, Pantera
I just find it so hard to believe that someone so dedicated to his sport, someone so disciplined and so spiritual to want a ritual performed during a fight would want to cheat? It's a little weird no?
I just find it so hard to believe that someone so dedicated to his sport, someone so disciplined and so spiritual to want a ritual performed during a fight would want to cheat? It's a little weird no?
Well, I don't like the idea of it any more than you do. And maybe they are innocent of it. It doesn't look like it so far to me but I'm just going with the odds based on the evidence. I'd like them to be innocent because GSP's my 2nd favorite fighter (behind Fedor). Plus, we don't even know if GSP was meaning for them to do it. If they are guilty, maybe he knew about it or maybe they just did it without his knowledge. A lot of fighters don't really pay much attention to what their cutman and everyone else is doing except the guy giving him instructions.
But would it be weird? Not really. Have you been around many athletes? (I don't mean that in a jerk way or anything in the least so please don't take it that way). I've known guys who were honest and/or religious but when it came to their sport used steroids or played a little dirty on the field or whatever. And that was on the college level, not even pro where so much money is involved. It is hard to believe about GSP but it's not out of the question. I think the most telling thing would be did his corner do this "ritual" in any other fight. If what they're saying is true, it'd be kind of odd if they didn't do it against Fitch, Koscheck or Serra.
From the article that ZeeCanuck linked to...the idea that they couldn't put something on a fighter before the fight because the officials would pickup on it doesn't hold water. Anyone that's been seriously into MMA on a global level over the last few years should realize this at this point because of the Sakuraba vs Akiyama fight. The lotion Akiyama used doesn't feel slippery until the fighter starts to sweat a little and then it becomes very slippery. This also isn't the first time someone from Greg Jackson's camp has been accused of this. Kenny Florian also speculated that Roger Huerta was incredibly slippery when he beat him. http://mmamania.com/2008/08/21/greas...rta-at-ufc-87/
I guess we'll see what happens. Either way, I think GSP would've pounded Penn but I don't like cheating.
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"Is there no standard anymore?" - Walk, Pantera
Even if his cornerman MEANT to grease him up, you think he would do it a bit better. The spots he was rubbing wouldn't benefit a fighter at all. People were bitching about it saying "thats how he got passed his guard" ...actually guard is held on the sides and if they wrap their legs around their opponent it's usually trying to get a triangle (which is high enough to avoid it) or they would clinch their legs around their lower back which is way clear of the "vaselined" area. There really isn't any way that small amount of vaseline (even if it was lots) in that area would help at all. Simple as that.
__________________ Pain is the feeling of fear leaving your body.
It doesn't change the fact that his corner cheated (intentionally or not).
He could have had lead in his gloves and won with an arm bar. That doesn't mean that he didn't cheat.
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I just find it so hard to believe that someone so dedicated to his sport, someone so disciplined and so spiritual to want a ritual performed during a fight would want to cheat? It's a little weird no?
I would be shocked if 99% of them don't have some sort of ritual.
A lot of fighters don't really pay much attention to what their cutman and everyone else is doing except the guy giving him instructions.
I totally agree with this, they are definitely not paying attention to much other than instructions and are pretty focused for the most part. So absolutely it's possible he had no idea IF that was what was going on.
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Originally Posted by Chiron
But would it be weird? Not really. Have you been around many athletes? (I don't mean that in a jerk way or anything in the least so please don't take it that way). I've known guys who were honest and/or religious but when it came to their sport used steroids or played a little dirty on the field or whatever. And that was on the college level, not even pro where so much money is involved.
Yeah I do see your point here as well...but he just doesn't seem the type to cheat. Also, I feel like it would be a pattern then...they'd have been doing it for other fights too?
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Originally Posted by Chiron
It is hard to believe about GSP but it's not out of the question. I think the most telling thing would be did his corner do this "ritual" in any other fight. If what they're saying is true, it'd be kind of odd if they didn't do it against Fitch, Koscheck or Serra.
I just don't want to believe he cheated. He's too good for that!!
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Originally Posted by Chiron
From the article that ZeeCanuck linked to...the idea that they couldn't put something on a fighter before the fight because the officials would pickup on it doesn't hold water. Anyone that's been seriously into MMA on a global level over the last few years should realize this at this point because of the Sakuraba vs Akiyama fight. The lotion Akiyama used doesn't feel slippery until the fighter starts to sweat a little and then it becomes very slippery. This also isn't the first time someone from Greg Jackson's camp has been accused of this. Kenny Florian also speculated that Roger Huerta was incredibly slippery when he beat him. http://mmamania.com/2008/08/21/greas...rta-at-ufc-87/
I guess we'll see what happens. Either way, I think GSP would've pounded Penn but I don't like cheating.
To cite other fights is all well and good but...HE's never been accused before. And the other info was also unfounded. I dunno...I think the other thing that throws me is that I just don't have as much admiration for Penn's entire camp as for GSP's. So it colors my perception of the whole issue!
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Originally Posted by ZeeCanuck
Even if his cornerman MEANT to grease him up, you think he would do it a bit better. The spots he was rubbing wouldn't benefit a fighter at all. People were bitching about it saying "thats how he got passed his guard" ...actually guard is held on the sides and if they wrap their legs around their opponent it's usually trying to get a triangle (which is high enough to avoid it) or they would clinch their legs around their lower back which is way clear of the "vaselined" area. There really isn't any way that small amount of vaseline (even if it was lots) in that area would help at all. Simple as that.
Penn vs gsp 2
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