To some extent yes. The problem is that it's hard to know what you're doing wrong when you're doing it. You'll need someone else to watch and give feedback so you get better. The sign of a good teacher isn't just one who shows you new stuff, but also makes sure you doing the things you should know correctly.
__________________
"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." -- T.S. Eliot
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."-- Aristotle
Like focus, stretching, different punches,kicks ect? Not for competing, but just for a better mind body connection?
What do you hope to get out of having a better mind body connection? If that is all your interested in then doing anything (not just martial arts) that involves using your body with a high degree of focus should help in that respect.
No. As it was said, if you learn the basics, you can learn them wrong with no feedback. Once you have the basics, you could practice them yourself much easier as you would have an idea.
I suspect I am oversimplifying here a huge amount...
However what exactly are the basics?
__________________ 2009: No races, No times. Slow year. So, now you're 96 cals short. You're now in starvation mode. Doomed. - LostDog
Blog entry: November 1, 2009, Pancakes LiveSTRONG daily plate log
I'm gonna go against the grain here and say you can teach yourself the basics, at least some of them. I didn't learn that way, but I do think it can be done, though it's not the better way. A far as throwing a proper punch or kick I think if you had a good instructional video, a mirror, and were halfway intelligent with some attention to detail you could teach yourself some things. When it comes to something like joint locks, chokes and throws I think it would be much more difficult because you have to develop a feel for it that you need another person for. For sparring (ground or standing) you definitely need some help. It would be better to have a teacher show you techniques, but you can teach yourself some basic stuff. There are examples of this in MMA: just look at Evan Tanner and Rich Franklin.
__________________
"Is there no standard anymore?" - Walk, Pantera
And to this I will add: It's hard to teach yourself something you don't know, even if you have videos.
How many people post videos of their lifting form here for critiquing? How much self critiquing have they done? How much reading on form have they done? They still want opinions on what could be improved.
So could you teach yourself to punch like it is done in Karate? Probably, would it be more beneficial under a Sensei? Yes. Having a master watch your form and offer changes is invaluable. This goes for every sport.
__________________ 2009: No races, No times. Slow year. So, now you're 96 cals short. You're now in starvation mode. Doomed. - LostDog
Blog entry: November 1, 2009, Pancakes LiveSTRONG daily plate log
I would say that you will probably end up getting more bad habits that will be hard to break if you decide to take up MA seriously. A good example is how to move your feet. When you are jut starting out it is very easy to develop back movement habits and poor foot movement and placement. A common problem you will see among beginners is a tendency to "lift" on kicks. You will also see a lot "balance" problems (back to stance and foot work. I think it would be very difficult to teach yourself effectively, unless you are a very good natural athlete (like to 2 MA fighters mentioned about.
Why wouldn't you take lessons? location? cost? other?
cheers
__________________
Peter
After all, diamonds are a girl's best friend…
Honestly that is among the most ridiculous thing I have heard.
If you take a tai chi class you are no longer learning on your own.
Eventually you will naturally squat with perfect form, deadlift with perfect form, pitch a baseball, shoot a puck etc etc. All of these are complex physical movements, punching included, that although you can learn by yourself, you can certainly learn better, stronger, less injury prone techniques from Masters who have learned from Masters who have learned from Masters.
I strongly doubt you can simply throw and self analyze and learnt to thrown a punch as well as someone who trains under someone who already knows how to punch.
As DP said, all you will really do is learn bad technique, which will be harded to break than learning properly from scratch.
Og.
__________________ 2009: No races, No times. Slow year. So, now you're 96 cals short. You're now in starvation mode. Doomed. - LostDog
Blog entry: November 1, 2009, Pancakes LiveSTRONG daily plate log
You can expose yourself to basics, and that's fine. If you want to actually learn something then go to someone qualified to teach. The little things is what you will miss most and honestly those add up quickly. For example knowing your striking surfaces, knowing where your power comes from, understanding the importance of breath, etc. I could go on but there's an absurd amount of material you will miss without the proper instruction. Beyond that you will miss the wisdom a Masters level instructor can offer you. I understand the fear of spending a lot of money to join a belt factory and get little in return on your investment. That's a huge problem and makes it incumbent upon you to really dig and find something traditional. I just recently earned my 1st degree Black Belt in Tang Soo Do, and my outlook is that I've got a nice start on the rest of my martial arts career. To practice martial arts is to give yourself a frame of ref. in which to approach life, and not about getting belts, pins, or awards. Take this seriously. If you cant, then dont make it part of your life.
__________________ "Do the thing and you shall have the power"
Throw a punch. How can you throw it better? Throw another punch. How can you throw it better? Etc...
Eventually, you will naturally throw the most efficient and powerful punch.
COME ON GUYS!!!
The question is, do you have patience and drive?
I still say download the Bruce Lee video and take a tai chi class. IMO
And sorry for the outrageous burst earlier. Heh
Adam
I appreciate your enthusiasm for getting out and doing it. There are a lot of things that you can learn (to some degree) by just doing it. But with most things if you do not get the basics down before you try and go out on your own, you will likely be developing bad habits/techniques. Even with good instruction, people still have lots of bad habits and techniques that they need to overcome. For most people, I think it would be better to get good instruction.
__________________
Peter
After all, diamonds are a girl's best friend…
I think it is better to take classes, however the question was asked whether or not classes were necessary, and I don't believe them to be, for individuals with the right mind set.
Simply put, if you break down every element of a punch, and use that thing inside your head to ask, well how can I improve, yes you might increase the risk of breaking your wrist if you aren't careful, and you might take a lot longer than if you had a good instructor, but you will also learn the basics like an egg becoming a chicken! Lol. jp. That was a bit intense.
I think a good thing would be to both think for ourselves, and have a good mentor, if you have the resources.
Ogedei, with a cat pirate picture like that, you are calling me ridiculous? How very nice of you, I will have to think about that while enjoying my 65 degree weather down south. (Stretches back and relaxes)
It all depends on what you're really trying to get out of it. I dorked around with some stuff on my own and did well enough to exercise and get a general feel for what was going on through trial and error. Being "non-competative" and without having a real measuring stick to say if you learned something or not makes it pretty hard to fail when you get down to it.
If you want to use it for something other than personal satisfaction, you're almost certainly going to need some sort of legitimate instruction. There's just too many nuances that you "need" to know in order to learn the skill in what ever discipline that you're trying to learn.
I think it is better to take classes, however the question was asked whether or not classes were necessary, and I don't believe them to be, for individuals with the right mind set.
Simply put, if you break down every element of a punch, and use that thing inside your head to ask, well how can I improve, yes you might increase the risk of breaking your wrist if you aren't careful, and you might take a lot longer than if you had a good instructor, but you will also learn the basics like an egg becoming a chicken!
And you don't believe classes are necessary based on what experience?
No amount of self analyzing can replace a great teacher that can explain and make you feel the nuances of even a seemingly simply straight punch.
It takes me about 5 seconds of watching someone to tell if they've studied with someone good or just learned from a video.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Ogedei, with a cat pirate picture like that, you are calling me ridiculous? How very nice of you, I will have to think about that while enjoying my 65 degree weather down south. (Stretches back and relaxes)
Yep, I am calling your concept of learning ridiculous.
Sure I could throw a punch. I could watch it, I could learn to do it better. But without someone telling me which parts are wrong, how do I improve correctly?
Maybe I think 'X' looks and feels awesome, so I never try and fix 'X', when in fact 'X' is wrong. A good teacher can tell you that 'X' is wrong, you need to do 'Y'.
To illustrate, a quote from Espi's training log on olympic lifts:
My new trainer thought differently and after just 1 week got me to do just those 2 lifts: (hang) cleans and (hang) snatches.
Shock #1 : all those hang cleans I thought to be doing 'right' were dead wrong.
She thought she was doing stuff right, no self evaluation is going to have you fix something you already think is correct.
So I guess you can think what you like, but there is a LOT of people saying the same thing from all different backgrounds, maybe it has some merit.
As for the cold. It makes us strong.
__________________ 2009: No races, No times. Slow year. So, now you're 96 cals short. You're now in starvation mode. Doomed. - LostDog
Blog entry: November 1, 2009, Pancakes LiveSTRONG daily plate log
It all depends on what you're really trying to get out of it. I dorked around with some stuff on my own and did well enough to exercise and get a general feel for what was going on through trial and error. Being "non-competative" and without having a real measuring stick to say if you learned something or not makes it pretty hard to fail when you get down to it.
If you want to use it for something other than personal satisfaction, you're almost certainly going to need some sort of legitimate instruction. There's just too many nuances that you "need" to know in order to learn the skill in what ever discipline that you're trying to learn.
I largely agree with your measuring stick metaphor, and I think that's what it comes down to. It's good to have one, other than just trying to improve. It can help you improve faster
Kuri and Ogedie I completely agree. It would be a rare case where someone would be so naturally intelligent and kinesthetically aware that they could advance further than anyone else.
I just wanted to point out that thinking for yourself in a creative way can definitely help, although intense structure is very good as well, not to mention a measuring stick and decent guru.
A math teacher was showing a class two impossible math problems one day, and a kid in the class was sleeping. He woke up at the end of the class and copied the problems down thinking it was the homework. It took him all week, and he couldnt figure one out, but he kept trying and figured at least one of them out, and took his homework to class. The teacher was stunned. He solved the problem. He didn't know it was impossible, the mind is powerful. That's all I wanted to point out.
Ko67, it is a common way, not a good way, I agree.
No, you cannot. Here is a post on the topic that I had written elsewhere:
A question that comes up often involves the best method of training stand-up on your own. If your goals are to compete or just become a competent hobbyist, then there are a million reasons why "training yourself" is a bad idea. For one, any stand-up art, from boxing to muay thai, to whatever else, is very unnatural. You have to re-train your body to do movements that will feel very strange or awkward at first. There is no doubt that you will pick up bad habits that will have to be un-learned if/when you ever do decide to actually join a gym or hire a coach. Its harder to un-learn something than it is just to learn correctly the first time. Another problem with the home learners is that they pick up tips and bits of useful information and don't know how to put it together. They have heard that they have to "keep their hands up," so they focus on that. Meanwhile, their head and body are completely statue-like, they never bend at the knee, and are stiff as a board. A proper trainer helps iron out all these little tid-bits so that everything flows together a lot more smoothly. Gym-trained fighters look relaxed, smooth, and confident. They have ring generalship and a solid understanding of the fundamentals. A home-trained "fighter" is stiff, jittery, tight, and completely un-polished. The problem is that the vast majority of men think they know how to handle themselves in a fight, despite any evidence to back it up. Practice by yourself long enough, and you can fool yourself into thinking that you are doing well. That's why we see so many home videos of people "shadow boxing," or even worse, "sparring" in their backyards or bedrooms.
Now, if you are just looking to get a workout in, then feel free to whale away at a heavy bag until you're exhausted. You can definitely use it as a way to lose fat, build muscle, or just relieve some stress.
Can I teach myself basics?
Linear Mode
