How have you integrated Training for Bodybuilding and Karate?

[Lewis68]

Hello everyone. I posted a similar question on a MA forum and got nothign but closed minded opinions, for the most part, about weight training (bodybuilding), especially as it relates to Karate.

I've been training with weights for three years now. I started because I needed to get into shape. I was 35%+ bodyfat, and probably a case study in how to prepare for a heart attack. Now, three years later, I'm the same weight I started at 3 years ago (237lbs), but I'm hovering between 16 and 17% bodyfat.

Recently, I started taking Karate with my 11 year old son. As is typical with me, once I start at something, I want to throw my all into it. Obviously, I've got some mass to move around. I have good strength, and for a muscular guy, I've got ok speed and reflexes. I'm not looking to add any more mass, as I'm happy to be where I'm at, but I don't want to lose anything either.

With that said, what I'd like to know is what people's experience is combining bb'ing and Karate (or similar). What sort of weight routine did you employ that helped you the most when it came to Karate.

Previously, the majority of my routines have been variations of 4 sets of 8 heavy reps. Occasionally, I'd delve into higher rep schemes. I've done DC training with which I gained an incredible amount of strength. I still employ some of those principals, mainly the extreme stretching. But, I prefer volume training. Right now, I'm maintaining that same rep range, but I've dropped to three sets with 8 reps, and then add a single higher rep set with a little lighter weight for 12 to 15 reps.

Any wisdom is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Irishdazza]

Google "martial art alwyn cosgrove", "MARTIAL ART CHAD WATERBURY", "martial art Jason Feruga".

All have written excellent articles and programs on this.

[Lewis68]

Originally Posted by Irishdazza

Google "martial art alwyn cosgrove", "MARTIAL ART CHAD WATERBURY", "martial art Jason Feruga".

All have written excellent articles and programs on this.

Thank you, Irishdazza. I've done both Cosgrove and Waturbury routines in the past... I didn't think of looking them up for this. Great lead!

[Chris Correia]

What do you mean by "integrating?" What's your goal for your weight training? Is it bodybuilding? If so, then train for that, and do karate for whatever reasons you want.

If you want to train so that your karate is a good as possible and helped by the weight training, then you would train differently, in a more athletic oriented fashion. However, there can still be hypertropy training/phases in that. It depends on your needs and goals.

Broadly speaking, eight reps is a pretty good middle of the road range to be in for either case. Ideal bodybuilding programming would generally use higher reps than that, and athletic training would move you into lower rep work.

I use Alwyn's martial arts conditioning program and love it. I don't train for size, really, but that's a matter of diet too, and less the program. However, the program is more oriented toward the muscle qualities needed in martial arts rather than hypertrophy per se. It's an outstanding program, IMO.

If you're stuck between the two goals of hypertrophy and karate performance, then one approach is to work in phases, but include a tad of the other kind of work in each phase. So, for instance, do a 12 or 16 week hypertrophy phase, but include a few sets of a heavier explosive or strength exercise at the beginning of each workout. Then do a 12-16 week athletic/power phase. However, I don't think you necessarily need to include any higher rep sets in that, because I think you'd pretty much keep whatever you gained during the hypertrophy phase. But, you could throw some 12-15 rep stuff in at the end of the workout.

[Lewis68]

Thanks, Chris, for your observations... I guess it would be easiest to comment within your test.

Originally Posted by Chris Correia

What do you mean by "integrating?" What's your goal for your weight training? Is it bodybuilding? If so, then train for that, and do karate for whatever reasons you want.

If you want to train so that your karate is a good as possible and helped by the weight training, then you would train differently, in a more athletic oriented fashion. However, there can still be hypertropy training/phases in that. It depends on your needs and goals.

I suppose I have mixed goals - be as good as possible at both. How's that for a vague answer? For the last three years, my goal has been hypertrophy. I believe that is changing a bit in that I wish to maintain the mass I've obtained and use strength training/weight lifting, what ever you want to call it to enhance the Karate. I love lifting weights and can't see myself ever stopping.

Originally Posted by Chris Correia

Broadly speaking, eight reps is a pretty good middle of the road range to be in for either case. Ideal bodybuilding programming would generally use higher reps than that, and athletic training would move you into lower rep work.

That is pretty broad, Chris. As you know, everyone responds differently. I've had the best hypertrophy results when working in the 4 sets of 8 range. Higher rep schemes don't, for me, work as well for hypertrophy. In fact, I tend to lose size and strength when following the higher reps - e.g., 15 rep range.

Originally Posted by Chris Correia

I use Alwyn's martial arts conditioning program and love it. I don't train for size, really, but that's a matter of diet too, and less the program. However, the program is more oriented toward the muscle qualities needed in martial arts rather than hypertrophy per se. It's an outstanding program, IMO.

I need to look at this program again. The article I found on t-nation was a tad difficult to follow, as far as the layout of the program goes. Of course, it was kind of late when I looked at it. Maybe you know of another good link where it's all laid out?

Originally Posted by Chris Correia

If you're stuck between the two goals of hypertrophy and karate performance, then one approach is to work in phases, but include a tad of the other kind of work in each phase. So, for instance, do a 12 or 16 week hypertrophy phase, but include a few sets of a heavier explosive or strength exercise at the beginning of each workout. Then do a 12-16 week athletic/power phase. However, I don't think you necessarily need to include any higher rep sets in that, because I think you'd pretty much keep whatever you gained during the hypertrophy phase. But, you could throw some 12-15 rep stuff in at the end of the workout.

This may be the way to go. I am a big believer in periodization, but at a shorter cylcle than 16 weeks. 12 would be the longest I would go. Typcially I change things up, in some way, every 8 weeks or so.

Thanks again, Chris.

[Chris Correia]

Eight week cycles would be fine, I think. However, if you respond as you do at about eight reps, you'll find that in Alwyn's program to a fair degree, but over time you can and should work at lower rep ranges. So, I think you'd maintain any mass you have, while working on qualities that benefit the martial arts. I say that because Alwyn's program is set up for 16 weeks, and you should follow it as such. After one go through, if you really wanted to, you could spend eight weeks in a hypertrophy phase of some sort, then return to the 16 week program.

Alwyn's program is not really laid out publicly anywhere that I know of. He's had some stuff published at Tmag and Bodybuilding.com that I've read, but it partial stuff. The actual program I follow is the one in his ebook available at his site. It was the first ebook I ever bought, with some trepidation about the cost, since that type of product costs more than a $20 book. But it's the best money I've ever spent. With some variations, one could follow it forever.

KURI: tell AC to send my royalty check to my home address.