Why did, do, you would you want to practice a martial art?

[Irishdazza]

Some good points there. My old club asked me back for a celebratory dinner and this was attached...

The Unique Belt System

[Bytsi]

Originally Posted by Irishdazza

Some good points there. My old club asked me back for a celebratory dinner and this was attached...

The Unique Belt System

Very cool. Our school has similarly laid-out belt requirements (available on our website or at each dojo) - minimal time between belts, minimum class hours, participation in minimum number of tournaments (and placings at the higher belts) -- minimum age for intermediate and beyond... Stripe testing for the munchkins because they like the reinforcement - no stripes for adults .

My old school has a website that shows group "testing" pics of 50-60 kids (as in, 7-12 years old) with black belts... sigh...

[Chris Correia]

I'm of the opinion of a balance of the approaches/perspectives.

A lot of the debate points depend on what one considers to be the meaning of a black belt (or any rank). Martial arts used to be just young guys, and, in some cases, very competition oriented; hardly any women, even. Now we have thirty, forty and fifty something year old women and men starting training. Realistically, their achievement will never match that of a 20 year old starting training.

I don't believe in black belt mills, and I believe in a slower track for youth. But I do think that a promotion system and schedule can accommodate today's broader array of students. Ranks just mean different things, then. perhaps, then they used to thirty or forty years ago.

That's all I've got time for now . . .

[Bytsi]

Originally Posted by Chris Correia

I'm of the opinion of a balance of the approaches/perspectives.

A lot of the debate points depend on what one considers to be the meaning of a black belt (or any rank). Martial arts used to be just young guys, and, in some cases, very competition oriented; hardly any women, even. Now we have thirty, forty and fifty something year old women and men starting training. Realistically, their achievement will never match that of a 20 year old starting training.

I don't believe in black belt mills, and I believe in a slower track for youth. But I do think that a promotion system and schedule can accommodate today's broader array of students. Ranks just mean different things, then. perhaps, then they used to thirty or forty years ago.

That's all I've got time for now . . .

The meaning of a black belt... the start of your REAL journey and learning -- that's been drilled into us for so long!

I absolutely know I will NEVER look like the 18 or 20 year olds in our dojo... I can only do so much with these old hips! But I just do my best and work hard to improve my fitness both in martial arts and in general (outside the dojo).

One interesting debate I've seen is: can ANYONE earn a black belt, if they take enough time and put work into it, or is there a point when physical limitations (age, weight, fitness, flexibility, injury) make that achievement impossible?

What if the student doesn't want to give up and wants to continue to progress, but they are no longer able to meet the standards of the higher rank even when making the maximum effort they (personally) are capable of? Some schools just give the belts out anyway, but does that detract from the "value" of belts / rank given to people who can meet the true physical standards?

[Faol]

Originally Posted by Chris Correia

A lot of the debate points depend on what one considers to be the meaning of a black belt (or any rank).

Here here. My Aikido dojo now has white, blue brown and black belts - our Sensei has conceded that north america is a very "must-see-results" type of society.

But prior to that he used the two-colour system: you had a white belt until your sensei felt you had learned enough to get your black belt, and nothing in between. That's it. You were either a white belt (for a long, long time) or black belt. Senior students recalled coming into the class for the first time and getting tossed around by a "white belt".

I think it'd be nice to get back to that in some cases...

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by Bytsi

The meaning of a black belt... the start of your REAL journey and learning -- that's been drilled into us for so long!

Ditto. I've decided it's about the equivalent of earning a high school diploma: very useful and admirable in it's own right, but in a way nothing hugely special if you are actually a student/learner and plan to keep learning. There is so much more afterwards, a veritable lifetime of learning.

[Chops]

Originally Posted by Bytsi

One interesting debate I've seen is: can ANYONE earn a black belt, if they take enough time and put work into it, or is there a point when physical limitations (age, weight, fitness, flexibility, injury) make that achievement impossible?

From what I understand about BJJ (the martial art I study) is that your belt level is determined by your ability to hang with others at that same level. All the tournaments I have attended seperated +30 from younger competitors. This is to compensate to a degree for the limitations you mention. The thing is, in BJJ, technique can overcome many of the limitations you mention, but I'm not sure about other styles that require more brute force actions. Still, if you can hang with other black belts of your same age in BJJ, I beleive that you would be issued a black belt and it would be legitimate. And as you mentioned later on in your post, the quality of that belt will be determined by your school. Many schools hand out belts as a way to keep membership. Mine does not and a year into training I'm still a white belt.

Oh, and for the poll, I got into Karate as a kid and we had a legitmate instructor, but I was there because Karate was cool. I ended up quitting because it demanded too much from me. I now study BJJ primarily because I have friends in the class and we have a great time, but also because it's great for fitness and allows me to challenge myself in a way that would normally end in jail time.

[Chris Correia]

Thanks for posting. I'm glad you not doing anything to get thrown into jail.

[largearms]

How do you choose which one to get involved with? I am interested, but I don't know which would more beneficial in the overall picture

[Bytsi]

Originally Posted by largearms

How do you choose which one to get involved with? I am interested, but I don't know which would more beneficial in the overall picture

First - what are your goals - why do you want to get involved in martial arts - what do you want to learn? Do you want to spar a lot, learn the artistic part, develop fitness or discipline or learn to defend yourself?

I don't think it's only about which art your pick - which teacher you end up with is probably more important... there are pros and cons to many martial arts, some are more competition oriented, some are more practical self-defense oriented, some have more focus on discipline or tradition than others... some do a lot of kicks, some punch a lot, some grapple on the ground and do lots of joint locks, some do throws and sweeps... what do YOU want to learn most?

Check out some local schools, surf the web a bit. See how many little kids there are, how many adults, who teaches (the head instructor or a lower-level student, and if the student teaches, are they someone you'd want to learn from?). How quickly do people get belts, and how often do people fail (failing belt tests is good - it shouldn't be easy or a given thing that you pass every test)... How long to get a black belt and do they guarantee it (not a good thing - it shouldn't be something that everyone automatically gets).

See if you can try out a few classes at the schools you like before committing - most will let you do a week or month of classes before you sign up...

[Chris Correia]

Some good advice from Bytsi.

One "seat of the pants" assessment beyond the goals (which is the biggest question) is, when looking at a given school, class, and instructor, is "Can you imagine yourself in there" and "would you want to be in there."?

FYI, I don't, as a standard policy, offer free trials (except I do have occassional "buddy/friend" nights, and also let women bring friends when they want to try classes. My thinking is that a class, or even a week or two, is not enough time to judge something. My thinking is "Watch, want, and commit (for at least some period of time). (the whole empty cup of tea thing . . .)

Just have some fun visiting some schools, watching, and asking questions.

Oh, also, I DO guarantee black belts . . . if someone sticks around long enough to qualify for the test. . .and if, after their test, they eventually finish up the parts of the test they invariably failed.

[Bytsi]

Originally Posted by Chris Correia

Some good advice from Bytsi.

Oh, also, I DO guarantee black belts . . . if someone sticks around long enough to qualify for the test. . .and if, after their test, they eventually finish up the parts of the test they invariably failed.

Thanks Chris

Just curious about your school's black belt guarantee, especially in light of some questions raised earlier in this thread -- how do you handle someone who has physical limitations that might NOT allow them to complete the requirements for black belt - ever?

I don't know what your specific requirements are at your school, but - if someone is not physically able (weight, age, chronic injury, etc) to do everything required -- do you tell those people up front that you to can't guarantee a belt (in other words, only guarantee the belt to people who seem like they'd be able to physically achieve it), or do you keep failing them on parts they can't do until they give up, or do you adapt the requirements to their limitations or ???

I've been at a few schools - in particular there was one "belt mill" where everyone got black belts no matter what, and I compare it to where I am now where the attitude is that not everyone should or can achieve a black belt... if you can't do what is physically required to a reasonable degree of competence, you hit a point where you can't continue to progress up the ranks...

Thanks in advance for answering!

[bacardio]

I guess I will pipe in on this topic, which has made for very interesting reading.

I am currently preparing for my black belt exam. Before being allowed to test for your black belt, the school system, I am enrolled in makes you go through 3 pre-screenings. These screenings are very intense mini exams that last anywhere from 1 hour to 2.5 hours each. We do these screenings in front of several instructors from multiple schools, then the instructor critique your work and provide feedback to you on what you need to work on.

First, the black belt is never guaranteed at my school, but your earning it is really based you being able to do all aspects of what has been taught over your journey to black belt to the best of your personal ability. Meaning if you can not do 3 consecutive tornado kicks and kick and x-ray sheet at your head level, the paper can be lowered to where you can kick to, but you MUST still be able to complete 3 kicks consecutively.

Hope that make sense...

[Bytsi]

Makes sense - and good luck on your testing! I'm hoping to test for my black belt next summer (I have one more brown belt to earn - hopefully late fall this year - before I can pre-test for black)...

[eastcoastsurfer]

Why do we need belts at all? I enjoy learning something new and simply getting better at what I practice (in this case BJJ). I guess a belt could show others that you've reached a certain level of progress, but in my mind that shouldn't matter. Progress is an individual thing. Also, with how easy it seems some belts are to get, they have already been devalued. At the end of the day, it is only you who knows your skill level regardless of a particular belt you have.