All the rage lately seems to be MMA like UFC and Pride where the grapplers seem to dominate - BJJ, Greco Roman, Ju-Jitsu etc leading to a big surge in people doing those sports.
That's cool when it's one on one.
But how many times is "self denfense" in a real situation going to be one on one?
If you are up against a couple of people, the last thing you want to do is take it to the ground like BJJ etc.
Thoughts on that?
So what would be the ideal "self defense" martial art or combination of martial arts?
I'd agree that BJJ is "too popular" as a form of self-defense. In addition to the drawback you mentioned, there are certain rules in MMA that do not exist in true no-holds barred combat that severely restrict the selection of techniques from BJJ that are applicable for self-defense. This is true for other ground-based systems as well. But some rules had to be put in place to make this a sport where one could participate without being maimed and ground-based arts received a significant benefit from those rules. But even with that, the art is far from useless.
Anyhoo, I don't think there is a perfect art for self-defense. Some are better than others but a lot depends on the person applying it to. With that being said, I'd go with Muay Thai or Muay Boran for striking and catch wrestling, BJJ or combat sambo for grappling. I also learned a lot about striking from Kali and Wing Chun believe it or not. There are some other good folk wrestling styles that would be good for grappling self-defense, like Glima's self-defense version (I can't spell it because the name is too damn long - freakin' Scandinavians) but places that teach those are very rare in the US. But that's just my opinion.
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This is so wierd. I was going to post the exact same thing about BJJ not being suitable for real-life situations in self defense. I mean, if you are confronted by two street thugs the last thing you want to do is grapple and force one into submission.
I am thinking of taking a martial arts class but I still don't know what style to focus on. I've done a bit of research. Originally I did want to do BJJ but again for the reasons I listed above and reasons listed from the orginal poster, I am reconsidering.
I think I am now leaning towards Judo because it also involves some ground technique as well as striking. I think I'll try a class for each of Judo and BJJ and see what I like better.
I have to disagree that BJJ is not helpful if threatened by two thugs. I have been training for the last few months, and my experience has been that it teaches three levels of defense: Long range (kicks, punches) mid range (elbows, Knees) and short range (grappling, locks).
If you are looking for a self defense class, I would go down and talk to the instructirs, and discuss your concerns with them.
well, if you got more than one against you and one of them manages to get you to the ground, you have to be able to get up again quick, and to do that, you must know your way in a ground fight.
Also, with more than one its hard to keep distance, more than likley one or more will be able to grab you and you will have to know grappling to get out of the grab or counter the grab.
and last time i checked the only place judo uses kicks and punches is in Austin Powers movies..
Judo does have strikes but obviously those are not practiced as much because of predominance of sport competition.
I think we're missing the forest for the ... something
If you want to learn self defense then find a reputable instructor rather than a style.
And if anyone wants to tell me that chokes and locks don't work for real then meet up in the bar down the street tonight:p
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Judo does have strikes but obviously those are not practiced as much because of predominance of sport competition.
I think we're missing the forest for the ... something
If you want to learn self defense then find a reputable instructor rather than a style.
And if anyone wants to tell me that chokes and locks don't work for real then meet up in the bar down the street tonight:p
Very good points, Chris.
My initial response to this thread overall was, 'It depends.' I hate "what style is better" arguments. It depends. A skilled boxer/puncher with focus and determination could best a "well rounded" MMA fighter. Or vice versa. It just depends.
No doubt, having a broad repetoir of skills and techniques could be very helpful. I do not work on any ground action at all, yet I generally feel very confident (in a cautious/mature kind of way, of course) in handling any particular situation that might arise. I know what I can do overall, and I know what I do best, and I'm ready to use it.
The more things you practice, the less time you have to perfect each of them. That is perhaps one downfall of MMA training. There are only so many hours in the day. But, it depends.
Generally, the MMA fights I watch have really poor kicking. It's boxing and grappling/wrestling. That's OK; it is what it is. One of my favorite fights of all time is Marco Ruas defeating Paul Varelens in UFC 7. Kicking. (Of course, he could back it up with grappling.)
Someone also raised the point of limited rules in MMA (or UFC) fights. Valid point. I don't practice grappling. But I do practice (simulated, of course) eye gouges (or even eye removal ) and other certain vital point attacks, which generally happen in the close-range/grappling range.
If someone is purely interested in self defense, then any particular styel, including MMA, training could perhaps be too much. There are basic quick and dirty things to do that take less time to learn and practice. People who enter into an art/style for extended training generally do so for greater purposes than pure self defense, purposes such as self-development or competition.
Are you really worried and serious about defending yourself? Then get a .45, a carry permit, get really good and carrying, handling and shooting it, and be ready to use it.
Or learn to handle situations really well verbally, don't go where you probably shouldn't be, and learn to run fast. That's my first line of defense.
Those are just some of my initial thoughts and ramblings. Am I right or wrong in any of this? It depends.
I believe mindset and be the ability to not shutdown in the high stress situation is more import than the exact system. Its mentality training. Tony Blauer is one of the best at this single element. A good instructor that shows sound basics in all ranges and improvised weapons (ie. pen, umbrella, purse strap) is what I would seek out. No karate kid garbage its the basics that will keep you alive along with the ability for your mind to evaluate and react to the situation appropiatly.
most people i know that do BJJ do it for sport. they aren't there to learn "self defense" hell most people i know haven't needed to learn to deal with defending themselves since the playground in grade school. the ones that want to learn to fight cross train in a striking art too. usually either san da, muay thai or boxing. and while ppl poo poo on the idea of learning grappling it is a sad sight to see a competent stand up fighter get his ass handed to him bc he ends up on the ground and doesnt know what to do. i have been studying chinese martial arts for a few years and they have a woeful lack of ground techniques. something about it being undignified to roll on the ground like a dog. but if they ever end up there most of them will have a very tough time of it.
as for the multiple attacker situation. thats never a fight you want to be in whether you are a ground fighter or a stand up fighter unless you study glock fu. the truth is the best technique against multiple opponents is to get away from them. even though most schools will train multiple attackers they rarely have you spar with multiple people in a full contact situation.
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as for the multiple attacker situation. thats never a fight you want to be in whether you are a ground fighter or a stand up fighter unless you study glock fu.
Lol @ "glock fu"
What's the consensus on Krav Maga for self-defense?
What's the consensus on Krav Maga for self-defense?
My opinion will probably vary quite a bit from others but I found Krav Maga to be a little overrated. It's decent but there are other things I'd rather learn. Remember, any defense that someone tells you will work against a gun is a load of crap. And against a knife your odds aren't much better. Unless, of course, you have a gun.
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I've seen enough knife sparring to know that you WILL get cut no matter what, so as long as your prepared mentally for that then there are alot of valid tactics out there. Nobody has the market cornered just as no one grappling style is best.
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Muy Thai + BJJ for self defense. Its all you will ever need the basics stay with you even after not training and the basics are what are utilized in any fighting situation stand up or on the ground.
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Not saying that you shouldn't learn to strike and fight on your feet... but when the shit hits the ground, ie. you are PUT ON YOUR BACK... you'd wish you knew some BJJ instead of nothing at all.
I only think the basic elements of wrestling or jujutsu the only elements i think apply the easiest is the rolling, and passing. To me self defense is to protect yourself from physical harm that isnt preventable and has intent to do permenant damage. I do not want to be rolling on the ground looking for a triangle, gogoplata, or kimura when a person has such intent on me. I think some basic head manipulation, soft point targeting ( eyes, ears, nose, throat). As self defense you are re-acting as it is so to counter react your output has to be enough to negate the initiative that the attacker has. Maximum damage in minimum time. If i am on the ground trying to wrap someone up I have too many blind spots, just with attacker not even considering the chance that the calvary might come to the attackers aid. If I get tackled by a assailant I am lookin for an ear slap, fish hook, maybe even an eye poke. Switch positions and finish, no rolling kneebars I might get shanked while im messin with his foot.
In no particular order
boxing
bjj
muay thai
wrestling
In most streetfights the person who launches the first aggressive attack wins. NO matter how skillful, tough or athletic if you get clocked when you least expect it you may be on the losing end. I have known many guys who could not strike or grapple very well but sitll beat up a bunch of guys on the street
Probably the best advice i could give is if you can avoid the violent encounter do so. Of course there are times when you cannot. In those cases be sure to strike first and fight like you are fighting for your life (which may likely be the case)
Is BJJ Getting Too Popular as Self Defense?
) and other certain vital point attacks, which generally happen in the close-range/grappling range.
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